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How does the game determine which creature is on top in a lair? As in, whether it tells me there's 4 phantom beasts or 1 storm giant.
March 12th, 2017, 08:09
(This post was last modified: March 12th, 2017, 08:10 by Seravy.)
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(March 12th, 2017, 08:02)Catwalk Wrote: How does the game determine which creature is on top in a lair? As in, whether it tells me there's 4 phantom beasts or 1 storm giant.
Whichever was placed first. In general, that will be the stronger monster, as the secondary is using "leftover" points, which are fewer - I don't remember the exact mechanism - it was explained somewhere about a year ago.
However in 2 cases the secondary monster can be stronger:
-If there is a high gap between the primary monster and the next option below it, a stronger one might be necessary to spend the points
-If even the maximal 6 copies of the primary monster aren't enough to use up the majority of the treasure points.
March 12th, 2017, 08:24
(This post was last modified: March 12th, 2017, 08:25 by zitro1987.)
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Really appreciate that you integrated my 'start with sawmill' idea - that is a major change in the game. It's either 200 extra gold, approx 15 extra turns of production, or somewhere in between.
Now a summon spam strategy is not always the only way to go. I can only imagine what alchemist gnoll swordsmen stacks with holy armor could do.
*Or the possibly best strategy - myrran alchemist with draconian bowmen
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Alright, then the best course of action is probably just to make my own mod: I'll peek into lairs and reload  I'll make sure to state this as a disclaimer for any game reports I post.
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I'm concerned about the extra advantages being given out like the swordsmen, gold, mana, etc. Yes the AI needs bonuses, but, aside from extreme rush strategies, the AI already has major economic advantages. While I fully understand what catwalk is driving at, I don't think he's keeping other game styles in mind. I fully agree that rush strategies need to be countered but no amount of swordsmen will do that, and even extra starting resources won't stop a focused rush, soscufucallh because currently the AI can't focus those resources properly.
Basically, the AI is dangerous due to having so much quantity of everything that when the player focuses somewhere, the AI will likely have a large powerful resource there.
Early rush strategies work because the AI hasn't got overwhelming numbers of anything; but it still spreads itself thin, so the human can focus it where its weakest.
Giving extra resources to the AI makes it stronger in the long run, but not enough to stop the strongest rush strategies (9 sprites in 1401 don't care if the AI has 15 extra swordsmen).
I think these changes will make the mid-late game even more difficult, will make early losses to the AI more likely for any strategy looking at later game, and won't do much to stop the likes of catwalk. All of which will just give people to adapt to even stronger rush strategies because nothing else will work reliably.
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I would really like to see catwalk play a game where he doesn't start any wars until 1410 (although he's free to defend himself if attacked). Which means he can't attack enemy cities or enemy troops. I'm aware this isn't realistic on impossible, but I want to see his input on mid-late game.
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These advantages were given to balance out the free sawmill - while everyone received it, this is clearly a major benefit for the human player who spends an average of 8-10 turns longer on building it.
If anything, I'm worried it might not be enough - we really should test how this affects early military strategies (especially gnoll and barbarian, but also klackon and lizardmen) before delaying spells.
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Nelphine, I consider this an unrelated issue, not a matter of rush strategies. Also, my personal preference is actually longer games. I'll gladly try a different style, the only reason I've been playing rush strategies is that they were effective. I'm still not sure if I've convinced Seravy that it's an issue, but I feel that I've demonstrated the problem clearly now.
I don't want to limit myself, but I can try a setup that doesn't lend itself to early fortress strikes. I might try Troll Halberdiers with Warlord and either Death or Chaos, that would be an interesting change of pace. However, I probably won't have much time to play in the foreseeable future. Next week will be very busy at work, and things are busy at home as well.
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That's fair. I'm not sure the free sawmill is worth that much (5 swordsmen, 500 gold, and 125 mana is a huge amount that early, especially since the already has resource boosts, and also gets that free sawmill) but, I'm already in the camp that thinks the overall difficulty bonuses should be reduced in general.
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(March 12th, 2017, 15:50)Nelphine Wrote: That's fair. I'm not sure the free sawmill is worth that much (5 swordsmen, 500 gold, and 125 mana is a huge amount that early, especially since the already has resource boosts, and also gets that free sawmill) but, I'm already in the camp that thinks the overall difficulty bonuses should be reduced in general.
Difficulty goes from 0 to 4 so it's 400 gold (instead of the old 150) and 100 mana (instead of 0).
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