WW11 - Civilization

[Gaspar]

I'm on slowcheetah instead of MJW because I thought slowcheetah sounded very scummy yesterday while MJW seemed earnest. Would I put a hamburger on MJWs innocence? Hell no. I wouldn't put three spare buttons and some pocket lint on MJW being innocent. But at the moment I find slowcheetah slightly more scummy.

I appreciate the effort there Tasunke, I wish I had the stamina for it myself at the moment. The thing about MJW is that his understanding of WW is excellent. He gets himself into trouble by thinking many steps ahead and assuming everyone else has also thought many steps ahead. That and he has no compunction whatsoever about lying to us. Well and he's batshit crazy and a bit of a troll. But his base werewolf instincts are good. His logic that he's highly unlikely to be attacked by wolves unless a strong power role is sound, he's not actually very lynchable despite his protests what he is very near-lynchable, a characteristic I share with him. He gets himself on the block often but doesn't actually get hung much.

Anyway, I think we read to much into the roles. Clearly, Ichabod didn't hand out any humdingers this time around so everyone's role is a little bland. So a wolf with night-kill immunity is certainly plausible as we know there's at least one vig plus several players out there with the potential to have a more direct vig and/or another indirect vig.

What I did want to mention, mostly because I think we're at the he said-she said portion of slowcheetah vs MJW, is that does anyone else find it interesting Rowain got killed last night rather than novice? Rowain definitely still had some suspicion on him and his role was pretty weak. novice on the other hand is fully in the clear. Now, obviously until you see a dead baner you always kill a little scared as a wolf, so since novice was the most obvious baner protect its entirely possible they skirted around that by taking out novice - if that's the case I'd expect I'll die tonight instead of novice. BUT - there's also a distinct possibility that someone has lied about their start tech and/or ability and the NAP needed Rowain dead before he scanned them.
Naturally - I would assume MJW as the most likely to have done this.

Thoughts?

[Sareln]

@ Tasunke, maybe it's a personal tic for me. I am after all a sample size of 1

Can people who aren't MJW explain the slowcheetah over MJW case? Between MJW's self interest and that I don't trust him, I'm not going to listen closely to him.

From what I've gathered in Gaspar and Lewwyn's posts, Slowcheetah appears to be playing the Lurker/Wolf role. He only shows up when it's time to defend himself (and yes, I know that's not super-fair to him right now when he's on the block right now so of course he needs to defend himself etc. etc.) but even just small signs of pressure are enough to bring him out of the woodwork. However, once that pressure has abated, he tends to fall silent again. So in the style of Pling or Gustaran's first games where they were wolves (I'm absolutely certain that's how Pling played her Game1, I think Gustaran did that as well his G1, but I may have that wrong).

In that same vein, as a lurking wolf he would want to have a great grasp on where people were leaning. His rather aggressive comment at me when all I did was abandon my Mardoc wagon rather than also state a new vote really struck me as fishy. After all, how is he supposed to defend from me voting for him if I'm not voting for him yet without looking suspicious. So here I am voting for him. I also think MJW is innocent by virtue of being MJW. If I'm wrong he'll hang himself over the next few days, but I do think slowcheetah is our best bet today.

Novice is novice and gave his vote with minimal comment that I can find super-quick.

Catwalk thinks Slowcheetah's attack on him was coached.

MJW would have preferred Selrahc, but doesn't want to die (naturally) so he's on Slowcheetah.

I think that accounts for the six of us.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Crossposted with the above 2 posts.

Sareln-- I switched on Jkaen only when he was already doomed and after he roleclaimed for metagame reasons. See post 1286 for details but I can sum it up here -- I thought Jkaen's roleclaim was BS.
After that I switched to Tasanke, again, because he showed up from out of nowhere at voted at the last second from his viewpoint. (I voted at about 4:00:50 which counted as 4:00).

[Gaspar]

Also obviously when I said Ichabod didn't hand out any humdingers, I meant uberfish. :P

<--- moron.

[Sareln]

Crossposted with the above 2 posts.

Sareln-- I switched on Jkaen only when he was already doomed and after he roleclaimed for metagame reasons. See post 1286 for details but I can sum it up here -- I thought Jkaen's roleclaim was BS.
After that I switched to Tasanke, again, because he showed up from out of nowhere at voted at the last second from his viewpoint. (I voted at about 4:00:50 which counted as 4:00).

I see. To be honest, I don't think I would've puzzled it out that way, but I'm not you. Less suspicious now.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Well looking at the above posts, including Sareln's lastest, I only have 2 things to say.

I would still be voting Selrahc if I thought Slowcheetah was not guilty. I really just cannot get a good read on him.

Also, I think a decent number of players left to "tech-claim" when I did it so I would be taking a very big risk. It's hard to think of a way it would be worth it.

[Sareln]

Well looking at the above posts, including Sareln's lastest, I only have 2 things to say.

I would still be voting Selrahc if I thought Slowcheetah was not guilty. I really just cannot get a good read on him.

Also, I think a decent number of players left to "tech-claim" when I did it so I would be taking a very big risk. It's hard to think of a way it would be worth it.

If you think both Selrahc and Slowcheetah are guilty (I'm not so sold on Selrahc) then you should still be voting Slowcheetah. Selrahc has a claimed and demonstrated power, Slowcheetah hasn't said anything about his. If we kill Slowcheetah (and he's a wolf) and has Selrahc's power, then we just hit Selrahc on the next day and then there's only one left to find. If we kill Slowcheetah (and he's a wolf) and he doesn't have Selrahc's power, then we've knocked out a wolf-role which may or may not have been used (as opposed to Selrahc's role, which we know has been used based on claims).

I'm going to bracket this again to emphasize. I'm not at all sure that Selrahc is a wolf; I am feeling much better about Slowcheetah. But if you think both of them are wolves, you should be voting Slowcheetah based on potential-role logic.

[MJW (ya that one)]

If you think both Selrahc and Slowcheetah are guilty (I'm not so sold on Selrahc) then you should still be voting Slowcheetah. Selrahc has a claimed and demonstrated power, Slowcheetah hasn't said anything about his. If we kill Slowcheetah (and he's a wolf) and has Selrahc's power, then we just hit Selrahc on the next day and then there's only one left to find. If we kill Slowcheetah (and he's a wolf) and he doesn't have Selrahc's power, then we've knocked out a wolf-role which may or may not have been used (as opposed to Selrahc's role, which we know has been used based on claims).

I'm going to bracket this again to emphasize. I'm not at all sure that Selrahc is a wolf; I am feeling much better about Slowcheetah. But if you think both of them are wolves, you should be voting Slowcheetah based on potential-role logic.

I'lll just state my postion more clearly. If I thought slowC was a villager I would still be voting Selrahc. I have to try and stop a mislynch even if it is unlikely to work out. I just like Selrahc more as a lych but just not that much more as SlowC.
If SlowC and Selrahc are both wolfs it is obviously better to kill SlowC because Selrahc is unlikely to have other power. I'm just not sure about this.

[Sareln]

I'lll just state my postion more clearly. If I thought slowC was a villager I would still be voting Selrahc. I have to try and stop a mislynch even if it is unlikely to work out. I just like Selrahc more as a lych but just not that much more as SlowC.
If SlowC and Selrahc are both wolfs it is obviously better to kill SlowC because Selrahc is unlikely to have other power. I'm just not sure about this.

Ah, okay. To me, you were reading like you were already convinced both of them were wolves. Rereading mine, it also comes across as angry, which it's not. Just me trying to puzzle through what I thought was an inconsistency.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Time over.

I just don't get it ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUJagb7hL0E