[Spoilers] Pindicator's Nice Thread

[Zed-F]

Unfortunate. Sorry to hear that the dice broke so poorly for you this time.

[pindicator]

I shouldn't mope too much; I did just raze an important city and Gavagai is pretty much dead-man-walking state right now. And I didn't have to sacrifice my army for it. It is a victory. But I had my heart set on Rome (and possibly Antium after!) so not getting the big prize there is what has me a little down.

Still, I need to move forward and I've been thinking about whether I need to go for more military to finish the job or if I need to work on the economy. I'm leaning economy. Which funny enough might mean more units. More details in the next turn update.

[pindicator]

097

First of all, I need to mind any desire for revenge on Gavagai's part.




6 Praetorians, 1 axe, and now researching Hunting so he can build spears. If he were ever to send those forces out it would be a tricky fight, so I plan on adding to my axe and skirmisher totals. As I'm typing this up, Commodore has burned another city off Gavagai so we might see Gavagai building up for a last stand in Rome.
Another reason I didn't want to throw my army away on trying to sack Rome: as soon as Gavagai is gone this turns into a me-vs-Commodore situation. I felt it was better to keep Rome strong enough to make conquering it tricky rather than giving Commodore an easy path to claim Rome for himself. Although I might have given him good land already, it's hard t

I retreated all of my units back except for a pair of horse archers which will threaten the horse pasture. He'll move a couple praetorians out and drive them off next turn so perhaps I shouldn't have even opened his eyes up to that being a target of mine.


Second, I've mentioned wanting to focus on economy. To me this means I need to push out settlers and grab the space to the west that I can grab, even if I didn't capture Rome. I am envisioning a dot map something like this:




This is not my ideal dotmap. Ideally I would have taken Rome and then the southern dot could be coastal, the sheep dot could go neatly between the sheep & the copper & silk, and the far western dot would be pulled towards me more to open up another city where Antium used to be. But now I need pragmatism of cities that can be defended if Gavagai were to move his praetorians out into the field. For that reason the southern dot may even move NE or even NE-E. None of those spots are ideal, but I want the Silk.

To defend those sites, I am planning on the horse archers to be a strong deterrent in the north. I'll have 10 again next turn, as I was already building replacements in Thundercats and My Little Pony. Next turn I'm switching over to a round of axes and whipping those, overflowing into axes and skirmishers. However many I think I need for defending that southern spot on the hill, and also for phase 2.




So ideally I settle the 3 yellow dots within 10 turns. Then we move on to phase 2 and use our horse archers to capture the barb city, as well as sticking a border city down to ensure we get the wine. This city is optional ... or I may decide to burn Commodore's city in the area and put my own city SW of the dot so it can share cows. But I'm also a lot more mindful of the psychological hit of a small injury after PB65, so we may scrap that part of it altogether and just stick with taking the barbarian city. That spot will need a strong garrison as well.

[pindicator]

t100, Part One

Over the last few turn we retreated our forces back to Rescue Rangers and the wounded are currently healing.  I've kept a cautious eye out for any retaliation stacks from Gavagai, but so far he seems to be defending what he has rather than picking one of us to take retribution on.  7 Praetorians is the last count I have, and he could make things tricky if he were to send them all my way.  I did whip a few more metal units in Rescue Rangers and David the Gnome, but I'm going to try to stop there as my unit costs are a little too high right now.

I've also revised the settling plan a bit to make things easier to defend:




Instead of settling right on Rome's borders and using the hill for more defense, I moved the blue city back and pop borders to get access to the Sheep and Silk.  I'm going to keep a couple of axes in the yellow city, and keep blue minimally garrisoned, but the goal for each of these cities is not to repel any Praetorian attack so much as to soften them up so the horse archers can move in and finish them off.  I have to remind myself that it would be in my interest for Gavagai to move his praetorians out at this point:  they are far easier to kill in the field than they are behind Rome's defenses.

You can also see I'm not holding off on capturing the barbarian city and am sending my healthy horse archers right away:




Horse archers are showing 71-75% odds to win against the archer defenders, so I'm optimistic that I'll be able to take the city by t102.  I'll have a garrison of 2 axes, 1 spear, and 1 skirmisher.

I'm also backing off on the idea to throw a city down between the Wine & Stone.  As much as I want to secure the wine, I just don't see such a city being useful and it would only escalate tension with Commodore at a time where I don't want to do that.  Better to get my culture over the rough terrain and make attacking in a difficult proposition. And I'm just going to have to trade Commodore for the Stone at some point; I do want to build Moai though.


Big Picture:




Having a little trouble with ICE and images that wrap-around in a cylinder, but I've mapped out the northern half of the map with my scout and galley.  Naufrager found my when his chariot appeared in Magic Science's city of Bolan-Bei.  He is the undisputed leader right now, with a towering population cap and tied with Bing for the most cities (9).  He also has Math along with two other civs; I just landed Math myself at the end of t99.

There have been two major hotspots for conflict in this game.  We've had a hand in the team-up on Gavagai and that is pretty well documented.  (Sorry Gav, but I probably only make that rush because you didn't secure your Copper and Horse early on.)  But out east, southeast of Magic Science, Ginger has apparently rage quit and left Miguelito to defend.  Not sure the details here, but didn't Ginger double-team on Commodore early in pb64 and pretty much ruin any hope Commodore had in that game early on?  That is what has me particularly miffed at Ginger's disappearance when things get rough here.  You need to enjoy the journey more than the destination, especially in these large games where you can play a great game and lose just because somebody has been given a fantastic start on the other side of the map.  (Not so much thinking about Naufrager here, as I am thinking about past games where I had good starts only to lose down the line to things completely outside of my control.)  Hell, one of my favorite games in recent memory is PB59 where naufrager and Amicalola teamed up on me early on.  I changed my goals as soon as I saw I couldn't win and had a blast trying to play Amicalola and naufrager's invading armies off each other.

Superdeath is doing his best to change up his reputation, and is quietly building away in his corner.  The Superdeath we all knew from before the pandemic is gone now, replaced by this quieter version who only wants to play in his sandbox.  I miss the fight of the old Superdeath.  As is, I'm not too concerned Superdeath tries to land forces across the narrow channel and settle the gold & silver.  Old Superdeath would have done that, though.

The only other map specific thing we need to mention is religion.  Gavagai was the only one in our side of the map to land a religion, but due to war Hinduism hasn't had much of a chance to spread.  And now that I've burned the holy city Antium we are even less likely to see Hindiusm take off somwhere (though i have made it a "safe" religion for anyone not wanting to feed an opponent).  Magic Science has Judaism and is possibly my best chance at spreading something throughout my lands now.  In fact, Thundercats just received a spread of Judaism.  Buddhism was founded by naufrager (I think?) and that has spread to Commodore, who now can finally use SPI since he adopted that religion straight away.


Graphs
















I am very happy with how my little empire has been performing. Despite having such a small land area (I have less than half of Magic Science's land tiles - 6.48% to 13% per F8), and only having 1 source of happiness I am competing on food and GNP. If I can solve some of those happiness problems then I think I could still make some waves in this game. I'm not sure I have any great odds at winning, but who ever does in larger games? PB64 is a great example about how games can turn later on (and PB65 a great example on how they cannot...).

You can see how some people are able to grow quite a bit larger than we are able to right now:




Next up, cities and plans

[pindicator]

t100, Part Two

Going to drill down into more granular plans for each city in this part of the t100 update.  First, a couple of top-level screenshots:

Current Technology & Expenses







I'm not too concerned with my unit expenses because I'm about to drop down 3 new cities, but I do need to stop building units now.  With -50gpt expenses I need 350g before I can start teching Currency.  Probably will get closer to 450g with the addition of 3 new cities, but I'm hoping the unit cost reduction will offset some of the city maintenances.  And the barb city capture gold will help get us there.

Currency next does seem like a no-brainer at 10 cities.  After that I have a couple of directions I'm considering:

• Calendar - two happiness resources & potentially go for MoM
  
• Code of Laws - do I go for my own religion?
  
• Metal Casting - Do I go for Colossus despite having so little coastline?
  
• Aesthetics > Lit > Music - I really like the idea of an early Great Artist on this map, also gets me access to Parthenon and the Epics.
  
• Construction - Or do I need to go back and finish off Rome?
  

In the back of my head I'm trying to remember that I need to start great person generation, and that I should try to get National Epics down to help my yields.  The smaller the empire, the larger the impact National Epics will have.  So with that in mind, here are the cities:

Rainbow Brite



My food and commerce capital of the empire, I could go a couple different directions with Rainbow Brite.  For now it is the prime location for building any settlers or workers, and I can already get up to +14fpt if the need arose.  The Lighthouse Bug is serving my well by turning all my ocean tiles into 2c tiles and so I'll be wanting to work all of them.  In the near term it is on settler duty as it is still wearing off whip anger; Rainbow Brite was one of two cities that stacked whip anger to get the horse archer invasion force ready.

Next Up - After the current settler finishes, RB goes straight into another settler, which will be used to grab the silver in the far west.  The whip anger will be worn off by then and then a library is next.

Great People - Long term this is our main great person generator.  Even sparing the southern clam for My Little Pony we can run 6-7 specialists easy.

National Epic WishList - National Epic & Oxford, possibly Globe Theatre or Moai?


David the Gnome



A slow-starting second city, DtG is positioned to be a commerce city long term but will work cottages while being a primary unit pump in the classical era.  Later it will take all the riverside cottages, both improved Spice tiles, and cap out between sizes 7-10 as just a commerce city that uses the sheep food to whip any needed infrastructure in.  The copper likely ends up with My Little Pony, though perhaps it could stay here along with some windmills to keep DtG as a more balanced city.

Next Up - DtG just whipped an axe for overflow, and will use the overflow to finish the horse archer it had in queue.  Next is a library.

Great People - Likely none.

National Epic WishList - None.


Thundercats



Currently my best production site, Thundercats is only whipping a settler because it was too far away from the action in the west.  Long term I envision it being my main navy producer and one of my strongest production cities.

Next Up - TC whips the settler on t101 and uses the overflow into finishing its lighthouse.  Moai next.

Great People - Likely none.

National Epic WishList - Moai & Heroic Epic, potentially a backup for National Epic if I decide to go Moai in the capital & Heroic at MLP.


Rescue Rangers


Built as a defensive outpost for the western frontier, long term I see Rescue Rangers turned into a middling city that will be left with just the deer and whatever cottages nobody else can work.  For the time being it is an important unit pump and the jumping point for my westward expansion.

Next Up - RR just whipped a spear last turn, and will overflow into an axe this turn.  Debating between another unit or just going into a library.

Great People - I want to run a pair of specialists here as soon as other cities can take over the mature cottages.  However, this may need to wait until Gavagai has been eliminated.

National Epic WishList - None


My Little Pony


I am torn on what to do with MLP long term. Stuck between other major cities, it most likely will get whittled down to a minor unit producer, although I could also see a world where it takes the Copper and Horse and becomes a major unit pump.

Next Up - Barracks and Stables are needed here next. By then we should be in a spot to build units again. I would also like to get some culture generation going to start securing the wine, but a library does not seem right for this city. Likely I will build a monastery here.

Great People - None

National Epic WishList - Backup for Heroic Epic


The Smurfs


One problem with all these tight cities is that later in the game we are going to run into haves and have-nots. Smurfs will be another of the Have-Nots, growing cottages now for other cities to use later. But it will have a few tiles in the north just for itself. The Truffles event turns out to be a blessing as I'll be able to run a pair of scientists here in the near term using a single grass farm.

Next Up - Continue slow-building the library, whipping it only if there is an opportunity where other cities can carry the tiles.

Great People - Run a pair of scientists for a great person at some point. Not a primary GP generator but I will try to get one out of this spot.

National Epic WishList - None


Inspector Gadget


A city I stuck just because I needed something to use the Sheep, Inspector Gadget is going to focus on culture buildings and try to be a thorn in the side of Commodore and Magic Science in the south. No great plans for this city save to be annoying.

Next Up - Whip the library in 2 turns then immediately run a pair of scientists

Great People - Likely IG will be running specialists from t102 onward.

National Epic WishList - None


And finally, t100 Demos:

[pindicator]

101

Might as well give Commodore a little bit of a scare, get him to build some more units:




What do I do with Zhou? Size 4 means I almost have to keep it, but what if I were to raze it and move it 2 east? That would put the wine in range and let me try to fight over the Stone culturally. It would let my Silk city actually be able to work the Sheep tile instead of being a filler planted solely for the use of getting the Silk. But it's really middling for food - only the cow and a grass farm. Then I end up with two middling cities instead of a good one at Zhou and a decent commerce filler. And again, I really can't turn my nose up at getting a 3 pop city straight away.

I'm also considering hitting Commodore's city if he doesn't put some more units there.

[pindicator]

102

I kept Zhou, for better or worse. The biggest pain point here is the 4 turns of anarchy:




Zhou became Ninja Turtles, of the Teenage Mutant variety.

Lost 1 horse archer, which was within the realm of probability with 3 attacks in the 70-80% range. On the last attack I took a little bit of a risk and didn't promote my HA before attacking, but it paid off and now I have a sentry horcher. That will be useful back on the Gavagai front.

Even looking at raze and replace options there really is no great spot for Zhou defensively, so I'm going to stick with the one that has the lowest cost. Hopefully Commodore doesn't go deciding this is "his"; he seems to have plenty more to settle in the south. I only used 4 of the 5 horse archers in the attack, so the 4th I sent directly on top of Commodore's worker in the stone. I want to map out some nearby territory with it. That leaves me 9 back at home, one of which will be a sentry.

That forest needs to be chopped straight away, lest Gavagai decide to park some Praetorians on it.

Speaking of Gavagai, he whipped away 3 pop in Rome. Could this be a replacement settler for Antium?




If he does resettle Antium's ruins on his half of this turn then I'm going to have to revise my dotmap because my Fish + Double Silver site would be invalid. First thought is to move the next city 1 tile NW to make it coastal. (Not 1 tile west because then he can hit it from chariots or horse archers from the gold mine; I want him to commit Praetorians if he's going to attack me. But then what do I do with the Sheep? I probably have to put a city down between the Sheep/Silk/Copper again and that isn't going to be safe to settle until Rome is gone. (Though I'm considering settling it anyway with a strong garrison and encouraging Gavagai to come out with his Praetorians to attack it; then I can hope to mop up the Praetorians with my horse archers on a counter attack.)

If Gavagai does not settle Antium next turn then I think I go with my original plan and settle on the marked site.


Finally, Ginger managed to retake a city from Magic Science and get a peace deal. Good for him, I hope he has his head right now and can extract a measure of revenge on MS and Naufrager.

[pindicator]

103

Gavagai did replant Antium, which gave him vision on my horse archer that's been ducking back and forth to spy his northern border. He also has 3 Praetorians advancing to defend it.

I left the horse archer against his border here, seemingly to threaten Antium, but in reality this is another trap:




With Gavagai's 2 workers out of sight it is possibly they are nearby and able to road the tile NE of the Praetorians. If Gavagai does this and hits my horse archer I have 2 workers and a number of units behind, ready to finish off the Praetorian.

I did decide to settle the spot East of the fish, after all. There are some downsides to this spot: Gavagai has Metal Casting and the Fish is the only food source; he could build a trireme out of Antium and there'd be nothing I could do for a long time. The new city also needs a border pop to get the marble in culture. However there are also upsides: it's a superior site long term, especially for commerce. It should be easier to defend, once i chop out those riverside trees. It also has more trees in the BFC to chop.

Also, in blue I had some bad luck with the next settler: the tree I just chopped to make way for the new settler had a forest regrow onto the tile 1 turn after clearing the tile! This will delay my settler another turn as it will not be able to move and settle next turn now. On the plus side, I decided to just move 2 workers back to that new tree and get some more hammers by chopping it again.

Quick view to the south:




I opened the save to find Commodore offering me open borders. I thought we had already established that? Whoops. My horse archer lost a couple tiles due to that oversight.


2 civs have Currency this turn. Bing & Naufrager would be my guess. I'm going to go Calendar instead.

[Qgqqqqq]

Not meaning to give advice, but if he does make a trireme that's hammers not going towards defending him on land, and out of a new city too.

[pindicator]

Don't worry, you're not giving anything that would effect me there. I had already decided to settle on the coast.

Similarly that's why I'm hoping to sacrifice the horse archer to draw out a Praetorian here. Every unit I can trade is a win for me due to my production advantage.