[Spoilers] luddite tries to remember how this game works

[luddite]

I have to say, I wish my neighbor was someone other than Mr Cairo. His musketeers are the best counter that anyone has to my artillery. They're cheaper, they get decent odds against AT, they can scratch an artillery, and with 2 moves they can run around and attack straggling units or undefended cities very easily.

I have some thoughts on how to deal with this, but have there been any games here with extended wars involving musketeers? I've only used them in single player, where they're decent but not great. But multiplayer is a whole different kettle of fish.

[Commodore]

I've won with them before, but my impression was mostly that their strength is when mixed in with knights. We all know how devastating huge knight stacks can be; now add units that get defensive bonuses and can promote up the Guerilla line.

[Mjmd]

Mig mostly conquered me with them + knights in PB59, but my army out of town. I would not call it an extended war...... Even still, I was decently impressed.

[luddite]

Yeah I can see them being a good combo with knights. Knights seem better overall, since they have higher base strength and it's harder to get the anti-mounted promotion than the anti-gunpowder. But they still work fine as sort of a "poor man's knight". Funnily enough, I actually can't get pinch since it requires gunpowder. But Cairo can.

I'll check out PB59, thanks Mjmd. I was also looking at PB38 where mackoti went on a rampage with a knight/musketeer combo. But it seems like he was already well ahead by that point and was just steamrolling everyone.

[Cornflakes]

PB9 had an extended musketeer war. I conquered a neighbor, then got caught with my pants down with a musketeer invasion from an unexpected direction as they marched halfway across the map through the arctic snow and tundra. I lost my entire conquest in a half dozen turns, but managed to hold my core and recovered back into contention. We ended up sparring back and forth for a couple eras until I succumbed to the exhaustion of modern era war turns and resigned. Sadly my screenshots were broken in the Dropbox link change

[Mjmd]

I mean PB59 Migs thread is worth checking out, but not particularly for him running me over 

[pindicator]

5) I like the theme. Some suggestions: Basilic, Dulle Griet, Pumhart von Steyr, thunderclap bomb.

Ooo, have to use Dardanelles as a name for this theme. (Edit: I see Basilic is the same gun by a different name.)

I like the city locations. One alternative city suggestion (which I'm not sure is better, but just to think on): instead of NW of the Wheat, you can try NE of the wheat and sharing the Deer at the start. The Crab can be grabbed wtih a city 1N of the Crab later on.

[luddite]

5) I like the theme. Some suggestions: Basilic, Dulle Griet, Pumhart von Steyr, thunderclap bomb.

Ooo, have to use Dardanelles as a name for this theme.  (Edit:  I see Basilic is the same gun by a different name.)

I like the city locations.  One alternative city suggestion (which I'm not sure is better, but just to think on):  instead of NW of the Wheat, you can try NE of the wheat and sharing the Deer at the start.  The Crab can be grabbed wtih a city 1N of the Crab later on.

Oh yeah, Dardanelles/Basilic will be in there for sure.

I can't go NE of the wheat, unfortunately, since that would be just 2 tiles away from the capital. I could go north of the wheat, but that wouldn't be able to share the deer. Anyway I think NW of the wheat works well, I can develop it pretty fast once I get agriculture.

One question- at some point I'd like to settle two cities to the north. I'm thinking of one near the oases and one by the plains cow. But those are both kind of far away, and closer to Mr Cairo. If I settle them with no defense, do you think I can get away with leaving them undefended for a while until I can build an AT to defend them? I'm thinking like settle them on turn 60, defend them on turn 70, something like that. Or would Cairo just snipe them with a musketeer/chariot before that? I won't even have copper for a while.

[chumchu]

That seems very risky. I would suggest a tight settling pattern with an AT playing zone defense early. Hopefully Cairo has other neighbors to bother but were I in his shoes I might be inclined to rush us before we get a big army out. The larger the engagement the better we will fare with artillery.

[pindicator]

You could try screening ahead of those cities with a warrior or scout, but even that would be risky