The Haunted Forest: Mardoc puts the Sidar to the test.

[Mardoc]

Meh. Not a big deal. Tip for the future: When you're doing pre-chopping and don't want to complete the chop until later, cancel the worker's actions before hitting end of turn. It's a PITA if you have a bunch of workers to click on and hit Cancel, but it lets you fine tune your chops without having to try and chase down the workers before their actions process.

Yeah. The problem was I didn't realize I needed to prevent the chop from finishing until I was writing up the report and discussing with you - when I started the workers I figured the only reason to stop would be nearby barbs.

Sure. I suspect we won't get (m)any turns in, but Selrahc has been sending me the saves so NP playing. I'll be a bit slow at times.

I send the save to Bob?

Thanks!

Yep, to Bob. I've no idea on the rate, I just don't want to be the reason for a pause. I'm fine if it doesn't move while I'm gone, so long as it's not sitting in my inbox that whole time .

I've no clue how the contact mechanics work.

Cool that we have contact with Bob though.

Let's get together with Bob and dogpile Serdoa.

I came within inches of suggesting that, but I figure it probably should wait a bit. Like, say, until we've a military enough to make Bob believe we're serious .

[Thoth]

Remind him that you've got me as a ded lurker.

Subtly. Like say, bitching about how I keep over-riding your builder stuff in favour of military.


In all seriousness, if we can sweet talk Bob into some sort of defensive alliance, it would be a good thing.

[Thoth]

Turn 56 played.

Killed off the remaining barb warrior at Asteroids. We now have 3 Waneabes in Asteroids at 7,8 and 9 xp. Plus a 5xp Waneabe in Pacman, and a redlined Warrior near the copper.

I've moved all our workers south. We can't chop anymore in Pacman without going into unhealthyness (and losing hammers) so we should focus on more cottages plus getting the Wheat hooked up (in that order of priority) for Asteroids.

We've got the military muscle to keep the barbs off our workers, even if we take a casualty or two.

I took the overflow in Pacman into a Divided Soul. I'll swap to a 1t warrior next turn, then finish the DS on the following turn. The DS is for xp farming to get to level 6 (plus any extra, easy exp he can grab) and an eventual upgrade to an Assassin (Yeah, I like Aeron's Chosen ) who can grab the Nether Blade before we Wane our hero and build the Shrine of the Champion in Pacman (our Heroic Epic to be city).

Rum, the Uber Archer in Asteroids is up to 85/82 exp. I've left him unpromoted for the moment. He can only get to 100 xp vs barbs (unless we attach a GC for a combat once he gets to 100xp) so this is the last promo he can get until we fight non barb units.

I've been thinking about magic and suchlike.

We'll want access to Water, Air, Body, Meta, Sun, Chaos, Shadow, Law, Life, Entropy and possibly others.

We have ONE guaranteed Mana node. I think we hold off on improving it until we have Sorcery. Our Palace Mana gives our Adepts some pretty nice toys to play with (Enchanted Blade, Courage and Blur. Not a dog in the lot. )

It also suggests we want to go for cheap Sorcery (research all 4 pre-reqs first) vs a fast Sorcery (research one pre-req then tech Sorcery. With the changes to the bulb path for GSs in EitB allowing a Sorcery bulb, the fast route can be very fast indeed.)

Given that our next 2 (probably 3 or 4) Great People are already spoken for (GP for the Tablets, GE for the Mines, GE for GoH or a GC for a Command Post (now even better than before) I think we go "cheap" instead of "fast" on Sorcery. In that case, we go for Poisons and Stirrups (and maybe one or both of Bowyers/Smelting/IW) before the Arcane line.

Wane-wise, I think our next one should be a GE in Asteroids. #2 a GM in Pacman, #s 3-10 GEs and GMs in Asteroids. Once we have 4 cities a Palace move is only 107 hammers and it gets the Industrious Wonder bonus to boot. The cost is cheap, and it gets us the God King bonus on a high hammer (thanks to the settled GEs) high gold (thanks to the Shrine + some settled GMs + oodles of commerce at non 100% slider settings)

[Thoth]

Killed off a barb lizard that was standing on our copper with a new built C2 warrior (65% odds) and picked up 5 xp in the process.

Both Budweiser and Rum have a promotion in hand and unspent.

In the south, we're looking at another Shade soon:

WotEM is due at end of t59 so unless someone else founds it on their turn, we've got it. Another few turns to go yet on the Great Priest but we should be Shrined and working on our GE within 8/9 turns. That will also let us work a more productive tile than a 0f/1h/1g Priest.

I've got us set to AH next. With beaker overflow from WotEM, 20% pre-req bonus + known civ(s) bonus we should be able to do a 2 t AH finishing at eot 61. That enables this worker micro plan:

We have sufficient forces to keep the needed tiles free of barbs so we should be able to stay on target with the worker micro.

Powerwise, we're now in second at 61k (we finished our first Divided Soul at eot 58. This unit is for leveling, not Waning. ) Serdoa is up to 90k after a large 2 turn jump in power. Recon he's got another pair of horsemen on the board (possibly upgraded from his starting scouts (with Homeland for extra retreat/+10% strength in his own territory) if he kept them close to home.

I'm aiming to get another warrior and another DS out of Pacman before starting a worker. Unless we get a free spread of RoK while our thane is moving between cities, we'll have time to complete the worker before starting Bambi. After that, another worker or possibly two before growing (and building a Smokehouse/Temple of Kill'em'orph). We'll probably have to throw a warrior or two into the mix to replace dead/waned warriors.

Once we swap to RoK (we should delay the revolt until after AH is in, otherwise the worker micro gets screwed up) and build a Temple of Kill'em'orph in Asteroids, we'll have a happy cap of 12 which will allow us to work Pastured Cows, an Engineer specialist and 10 Cottages (8 of them riverside). We'll have 8 base hammers from tiles + Waned GEs and +3 food (if healthy, we'll need either a gran or a smokehouse for that) to put towards military and a pile of commerce to push through the Brewery and Academy.

[Thoth]

t59:

[Mardoc]

Thanks for keeping the game moving, and for moving it in such a good direction!

A brief T60 report - killed a barb warrior and lizard but lost a Wanabe in the process; that did enable the worker microplan to continue, however.

We're now a solid #2 in power, but Serdoa's really taking off. I wish I knew if he had found us yet or not, but Bronze is going to have to be sometime soonish. More discussion later once I've had a chance to assimilate the current position.

[Mardoc]

Strategy discussion, ho!

I've moved all our workers south. We can't chop anymore in Pacman without going into unhealthyness (and losing hammers) so we should focus on more cottages plus getting the Wheat hooked up (in that order of priority) for Asteroids.

This is temporary, right? I still want to get those hills mined eventually. I can agree there's not a lot of point until we've gotten more food in Pacman and Asteroids launched, but we ought to be able to supply a lot of healthiness through our two meats, two grains, granary and potential smokehouse/herbalist.

We've got the military muscle to keep the barbs off our workers, even if we take a casualty or two.

I took the overflow in Pacman into a Divided Soul. I'll swap to a 1t warrior next turn, then finish the DS on the following turn. The DS is for xp farming to get to level 6 (plus any extra, easy exp he can grab) and an eventual upgrade to an Assassin (Yeah, I like Aeron's Chosen ) who can grab the Nether Blade before we Wane our hero and build the Shrine of the Champion in Pacman (our Heroic Epic to be city).

Sounds good. We're to the point where we can risk casualties, definitely, and to the point where it's worth the cost - should get us faster Wanes and much more production/GNP.

Also agreed we ought to start developing one or more Divided Souls, Sidar recon ought to be the backbone of our MP-military. I do like Ghosts best for that, but I suppose considering some of the stronger units as well is a good move.

Rum, the Uber Archer in Asteroids is up to 85/82 exp. I've left him unpromoted for the moment. He can only get to 100 xp vs barbs (unless we attach a GC for a combat once he gets to 100xp) so this is the last promo he can get until we fight non barb units.

Ok, I'll leave him unpromoted too. My current guess is that we need Formation on him, especially since I believe Horse Archers are immune to first strikes. But there's no need to be hasty about it when he's going to be mostly out of the fighting and it's been so long since he's even taken damage.

I've been thinking about magic and suchlike.

We'll want access to Water, Air, Body, Meta, Sun, Chaos, Shadow, Law, Life, Entropy and possibly others.

We have ONE guaranteed Mana node. I think we hold off on improving it until we have Sorcery. Our Palace Mana gives our Adepts some pretty nice toys to play with (Enchanted Blade, Courage and Blur. Not a dog in the lot. )

It also suggests we want to go for cheap Sorcery (research all 4 pre-reqs first) vs a fast Sorcery (research one pre-req then tech Sorcery. With the changes to the bulb path for GSs in EitB allowing a Sorcery bulb, the fast route can be very fast indeed.)

Given that our next 2 (probably 3 or 4) Great People are already spoken for (GP for the Tablets, GE for the Mines, GE for GoH or a GC for a Command Post (now even better than before) I think we go "cheap" instead of "fast" on Sorcery. In that case, we go for Poisons and Stirrups (and maybe one or both of Bowyers/Smelting/IW) before the Arcane line.

Agreed on all this...except that we probably ought to pick up Knowledge of the Ether sooner rather than later. I really want that mobility. And of course we need to start a couple adepts studying if they'll be able to cast Dispel Magic by the time we get to Sorcery. Do remember that the combination of our heavy focus on starting XP + EitB change to passive XP ought to make Mages slightly less painful than before .

I like Fire, as well - Fireballs would be collateral that can keep up with the split soul recon, almost. If our foes play smart, just about every city should have a good deal of culture and defensive bonuses from either citadels or walls, right?

And Inspiration would just be fun.

But waiting on heading up further the arcane line makes perfect sense to me. Too many other useful things to grab.

I think the current plan is (finish AH) -> Writing -> Bronze Working, which should give us time to hash out further plans. I lean toward heading for Military Strategy next, to get a Great Commander and Form of the Titan on the board. Which should eventually allow us another Great Commander, if the RNG is friendly - and then all our units can start at 10XP .

Wane-wise, I think our next one should be a GE in Asteroids. #2 a GM in Pacman, #s 3-10 GEs and GMs in Asteroids. Once we have 4 cities a Palace move is only 107 hammers and it gets the Industrious Wonder bonus to boot. The cost is cheap, and it gets us the God King bonus on a high hammer (thanks to the settled GEs) high gold (thanks to the Shrine + some settled GMs + oodles of commerce at non 100% slider settings)

I mostly agree - I'm not sure how many Great Merchants are worth settling, though. We don't currently have any way to spend that money. Maybe Arete sometime soon - but we won't want to leave Apprenticeship for MilState, I don't think, so we'll be unable to cash rush until probably Undercouncil whenever we switch religions. Unless you're thinking of just settling enough to keep up with the cost of an ever-expanding army, and the rest to be GEngineers?

Still, I can agree that it'll be a while before we want GSages. We just need the hammers too badly right now, and of course with the ever-increasing barb presence most of those hammers can turn around and become Wanes.

Also...if we're going to move the palace, we'll want some of those merchants in Asteroids, not Pacman. I guess it really depends on the relative rate of wane development vs capturable barb city development.

WotEM is due at end of t59 so unless someone else founds it on their turn, we've got it. Another few turns to go yet on the Great Priest but we should be Shrined and working on our GE within 8/9 turns. That will also let us work a more productive tile than a 0f/1h/1g Priest.

Yes...although it is tempting to pick up a stage or two of the Altar...

No, not really. We've got too many other uses for Great People, like all the useful wonders in the game, and hopefully a pair of Command Posts. And at some point we'll want to turn on the specialist econ, too, and maybe have a couple golden ages, and there are other shrines that could be fun, and...

I come back to the Conquest plan, I think .

I've got us set to AH next. With beaker overflow from WotEM, 20% pre-req bonus + known civ(s) bonus we should be able to do a 2 t AH finishing at eot 61. That enables this worker micro plan:

We have sufficient forces to keep the needed tiles free of barbs so we should be able to stay on target with the worker micro.

Makes sense to me. I'll be following it as best I can. The only concern at all in my book is that it's a long time before we can get our bronze connected with this plan; maybe I do see your point in knocking out another worker from Pacman as some point soon .

Powerwise, we're now in second at 61k (we finished our first Divided Soul at eot 58. This unit is for leveling, not Waning. ) Serdoa is up to 90k after a large 2 turn jump in power. Recon he's got another pair of horsemen on the board (possibly upgraded from his starting scouts (with Homeland for extra retreat/+10% strength in his own territory) if he kept them close to home.

I'm aiming to get another warrior and another DS out of Pacman before starting a worker. Unless we get a free spread of RoK while our thane is moving between cities, we'll have time to complete the worker before starting Bambi. After that, another worker or possibly two before growing (and building a Smokehouse/Temple of Kill'em'orph). We'll probably have to throw a warrior or two into the mix to replace dead/waned warriors.

Yeah, sounds good. Serdoa is getting scary, we need to start on a force that can turn him away. Presumably he'll pick the easiest target, right?

There's the chance this is intended for expansion via the barbs, of course. Although I still don't recall seeing any popped cities, maybe his scouts are luckier/better. Or, well, I see he's swapped to Apprenticeship/Conquest himself - maybe he's looking to knock out a bunch of flanking II horses so he can upgrade them to 95% withdrawal horse archers later on. If that's true, then he doesn't have a current target, and we've got time to keep snowballing our economy.

But in any case, I'll feel a lot happier once we've gotten a couple well promoted Split-Soul capable recon units on the board.

Once we swap to RoK (we should delay the revolt until after AH is in, otherwise the worker micro gets screwed up) and build a Temple of Kill'em'orph in Asteroids, we'll have a happy cap of 12 which will allow us to work Pastured Cows, an Engineer specialist and 10 Cottages (8 of them riverside). We'll have 8 base hammers from tiles + Waned GEs and +3 food (if healthy, we'll need either a gran or a smokehouse for that) to put towards military and a pile of commerce to push through the Brewery and Academy.

Sounds like a plan. Asteroids should improve even further when its borders pop and we find a way to hook up the wines and silks. It looks like we may want to move on from one-turning warriors and start quickly knocking out the axes - we just need 2-3 more GEngineers to put us to 1-turn territory with them .

I think I'm mostly giving up on leaving our territory unroaded, getting our cities bigger and more productive ought to allow us more military, we can control our territory that way rather than trying to limit roads too much. There's just too much value from getting all the resources connected. Presumably later on we can partially fix this by building a bunch of forts, right?

t59:

I love it when a plan comes together .

Also I'm very pleased to see the game kept moving at a good clip while I was away. There's a good chance it means another turn tonight, anyway, which I can document better.

[Mardoc]

The turn in pictures:




Decisions that need to be made:

• Is a Temple to Kilmorph the right build for Asteroids now? Maybe it should be a granary instead?
  
  
• What to do about the Hippus-Ljo war? Is it real?
  

[COLOR="Silver"]I notice you're at war with Serdoa. Care to fill me in? Is it a real
war? Could you use an ally?[/COLOR]

[Mardoc]

On second thought, I decided to ask Serdoa too:

[COLOR="Silver"]Serdoa,

I notice that you're at war now. I'm, of course, curious as to what's
going on. Is this just to allow Bob's scout passage, or is there
actual fighting occurring?

- Mardoc[/COLOR]

Given that Bob declared, and the timing, I figure this is either him sniping a worker, or a pre-cartography right of passage. Or maybe killing a Hippus unit that was in a threatening location. We shall see what they have to say.

For more detail on the turn - I decided not to attack any barbs this turn, but I did cover the worker stack with three warriors. Even if all possible barbs attack and we lose all fights, the workers will still be alive. The DS headed south is to hopefully get decent odds on the lizard, if it chooses not to suicide.

Next turn we'll revolt to Kilmorph, to get +2 happy in both cities.

[Ilios]

I've got to say, although I'm still not ready for the hard work of full diplo, it does make for an entertaining read in other threads.