[SPOILER] - Suboptimal finds trees, still seeks forest

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

Note that the Holy Site is along the river - I think that confirms he's planning on stacking the RIver Goddess pantheon with the Khmer river bonus to try and get lots of housing and amenities for tall cities.

[suboptimal]

That will be interesting to see...at least until we (hopefully) take the city. Nazca has not started a Holy Site yet though it has camped the deer.

Turn 30

Take a look around, nothing notable. Mashed’s archer is down to two turns so I think I actually do have the overflow correct and the GUI, as always, is slow. Dauphinoise has grown and is complaining about amenities. I shift citizens around and the city is now working the first ring bananas and the two wines. The builder has one turn left, as does Irrigation. Our first plantation will be one of the wines in two turns. In the desert things have gotten busy:




Pindicator’s scout has emerged and I was initially not sure quite how it got there as it had virtually disappeared during T29. I checked the EoT 29 save after I got done with this turn and it turns out is was perfectly hiding behind the Commercial Hub marker next to Dauphinoise. (and to keep that in mind next time something disappears like that). The barbarian spearman has emerged from its camp. Typically this is done when it has line of sight to a ranged or recon unit. In this case it’s Pindicator’s scout that has drawn it out as it couldn’t see the archer from the camp. In looking at the numbers there’s an outside chance I could do enough damage so that Pindicator’s scout could kill it and be in position to take the camp. However, that’s unlikely. I shoot, doing 35 points (below average) and the spearman is redlined but with enough damage left that Pindicator can’t kill it. Based on what I’ve seen that spearman should retreat to the camp during the interturn (redlined barb garrison units will go home when redlined). That will let me kill it next turn and take the camp the turn after.

Down at Conquest of Paradise Pindicator has moved his warrior northeast along the river. I also move northeast, revealing some difficult but very Magnus friendly terrain:




The good news for us is that it’s on the “wrong” side of the river for defending against an assault.

Internationally the appearance of the potato gun has put us at the top of the world in milpower at a total of 73. Archduke gained 5 empire points, likely another Lavra going down. Cornflakes has completed his third civic while Pindicator has completed his second.

[suboptimal]

Turn 31

Irrigation completes, start Writing. Once that is complete I’ll put down the +2 Campus SW of Mashed to lock in the costs. It’d be nice to chop that forest but the district will be for the State Workforce inspiration and there’s no real time to get a builder out for a 30 chop. Mining and Bronze Working will follow Writing. We’re also the first to four techs.

Dauphnoise has completed its builder and it starts an archer, four turns to get that done. It moves to the eastern wines and reveals a bit more land in that direction:




As can be seen the Khmer scout has disappeared, as has the barbarian camp. Archer moves to the hill and sees that the Nazca have cleared out the camp. :gripe: Oh well, at least it wasn’t Pindicator. I move the archer to the geothermal vent to defog in that direction. That reveals theKhmer scout and a mountain:




The tile the scout is on is coastal. In the south the Khmer warrior has also left my line of sight. I move northeast and reveal not much of anything. It’s all forest hills down here though the SW tile in Wealth of Nations is a jungle hill. It’s going to make ranged assault of the capital a bit tricky. Speaking of the capital a builder has appeared. Due to it being in the city I can’t count the actual figures to see how many charges it has.

Alhambram and Kaiser both finished their second civic this past turn.

I’ve noticed a slight oddity in the production at Mashed. Last turn the archer’s production was at 35 and this turn it should have been at 57 or 58 (+22.5). However, it was only at 55. This doesn’t quite match with expectations or with what I saw in practice games. I’ll have to check the production at Dauphinoise next turn – that should have the archer at 23 or 24, depending on overflow. If it’s 20 or 21 then it looks like production might be getting capped at 100% bonus.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

I don't understand why the designers didn't just use Civ IV's production system. By "fixing" chop-overflow abuse they've managed to bust all other overflow in the game. Bah.

[suboptimal]

Turn 32

I’ve noticed that Alhambram, Archduke and Cornflakes have all been actively posting over the past several turns. Wonder if they all met each other and are on a “Landmass of Death.

No opening notifications. At Mashed our third tater tosser is out (picking up the Machinery eureka) and starts its march southeast. The city starts work on the next one, also theoretically due in three turns but the GUI shows four . At Dauphinoise the builder puts down the first plantation, getting us some needed , extra and an amenity, which gives us a nice little boost across the empire. That also shaves two turns off Foreign Trade. We’ll do the other wines in two turns then get the first ring bananas. Archer moves to the city center. For reference the city shows 24 in the archer but there might have been some overflow. Next turn production should be at 46-47 if we’re getting 225%, 44 if we’re not.

The desert archer is going to take the long way around the volcano to defog the area. It won’t be lacking for time as it can cut across the flat ground south of the West Nubian Lake. I do hope that warrior from Nazca stays out of the way. The archer does find a nice coastal spot with whales and crabs:




I’ll worry about defogging that point to the northwest later – it’ll be three turns around the volcano and two more to the river from here. Coincidentally, that’ll be when the archer in Dauphinoise gets there.

In the Khmer lands (Cambodian, I believe is the demonym?) I move the warrior east through the border gap. That reveals:




That’s Lake Tonlé Sap according to the tool tip, so it's not coastal. I’m a bit split on what to do next. Option one would be to circumnavigate that lake with the warrior. We have the turn time to do it (12-15 turns) but the risk is getting stuck by a mountain range over there. I could also move one or two tiles further east just to defog the eastern portion of the capital’s first ring before turning north. However, I will note that Conquest of Paradise can be ranged attacked from four second ring tiles (grassland 2W, forest W-NW, GFH NW-NW and tile the warrior is currently standing in) so our intended attack on the capital would likely be from that direction, rendering those tiles “unneeded” . I think the better option is for the warrior to go northwest through Wealth of Nations’ territory to fully defog that city then continue defogging in the northern area so we can start planning the attack.

Archduke completed a civic and gained two empire points. Alhambram completed a civic (3rd) and a tech (4th), Cornflakes finished a tech and gained an empire point, the rest of us were static. In looking at the culture victory screen Cornflakes has finished at least 200 worth of civics and inspirations while the rest of us are still working on getting there.

[Banzailizard]

I agree with the warrior going northwest to defog. You need to know what your attack is going to look like, that is priority #1.

[suboptimal]

In the interturn I've been contemplating settler placement and Banzailizard's earlier suggestion about perhaps settling lakeside on the SW/W side of the West Nubian Lake rather than where I've marked the third city site on the SE corner of the lake. Referring to the T13 & T15 screenshots plus the T32 one above:






My rationale for this placement was tile sharing between the third city and Dauphinoise, plus the immediate availability of the salt for added income. I'm now thinking Banzailizard is/was onto something regarding city placements. In looking at the map how does this look:

- Canal Marsh on western edge of lake. Mashed's settler could get here in 7 turns (found on T56).
- Coastal plains E-NE of current marker. Dauphinoise's settler could get here and found in 4 turns (T58).

These would leave valid locations by the whales on the W coast and down by the geothermal vent on the river for a second round of settlers in the 60's or 70's.

[CFCJesterFool]

If I am following correctly, the new considered locations are better, but I would mark the map and post an overview picture so there is no confusion. Probably a good idea to think about district placement as well.

[suboptimal]

Turn 33

In the north there’s nothing major to report. Archers move around, don’t see anything much new. Builder repositions to the other wines. The Nazca warrior has remained fortified on the tile where the camp is, presumably to heal up (and is expected of the AI programming). Pindiator’s scout is now SE of the western diamonds.

I do see that I missed some micro at Mashed. I was supposed to spend T31 and T32 working the PFH instead of the turtles in order to 3-turn the current archer. In looking at the actual numbers the archer is at 23.6 on my tracking sheet and shows 21 in the GUI. That means that Agoge and Ta-Seti are additive, not multiplicative, and the total bonus for ranged unit production is 100% (NOT COMPLAINING HERE). Swapping to the PFH as intended would delay city growth by a turn but get the archer done “on time” EoT34. However, I realized that working the GFH for a turn gets me pop growth “now” and having the new pop work the PFH next turn gets me the archer next turn. That gets a in my book.

Down at Khmer we enter Cambodian territory.




Holy crap. I want me some of that. I expect he’ll move his slinger to the tile NW of the warrior and force me out of the borders to continue moving north. That’s fine because I’ll still see what I want to see. Strategic view shows no hammer at Wealth of Nations so I assume he’s got a unit build going on there (don’t see any infrastructure graphics, either). That open grassland to the NE is the city’s weak point – I’d be able to get three archers attacking the city from that tile and the two north of it. Here’s the zoomed out view from Dauphinoise to Wealth of Nations:




It’s four tiles from that stubby river to the northern borders and the northern side will be completely defogged in three turns. That geothermal vent is on plains and has a 1MP cost. Depending on that river and what’s in the fog I might be able to go around it rather than having to spend a turn crossing it. What’s the timing on these archers (and the warrior) getting there?

- Desert archer: SW of Cows w/ 2MP left during T37
- Dauphinoise archer: SW of Cows w/ 2MP left during T37
- Archer 2NW of Dauphinoise: SW of Cows w/ 2MP left during T40
- Archer built at Dauphinoise: SW of Cows w/ 2MP left during T39
- Warrior built at Dauphinoise: SW of Cows w/ 0MP left during T42

We should be able to start the assault no later than Turn 45, depending on terrain and whether Pindicator sniffs this out. If there’s open terrain between the river and the city then three of the archers could be attacking as early as Turn 42. The one thing to watch is Pindicator’s gold total. He’s got enough to purchase a warrior and would be able to purchase a spearman (if he’s completed Bronze Working by then), either of which would slow down the archers.

The archer finishing at Mashed next turn is destined to go northeast to scout as originally intended. It could be at the river on Turn 43 but I think scouting is the better option. We need to defog and it should beat Pindicator’s scout to any city-states in that direction.

Here’s the dotmap (pinmap?) I mentioned in my earlier post:




That volcano-side Campus location is risky but repair costs are relatively cheap so it might be worth it. I forgot to mark a harbor west of the Mashed settler’s city.

TBS and Cornflakes each completed their third tech while Pindicator gained two population.

I’ve been thinking about shuffling the build order a little bit to get the settlers out quicker. Currently it looks like this:

Mashed: archer (34, current build) → archer (37) → warrior (39) → archer (42) → settler (49) → Campus (57)
Dauphinoise: archer (34, current build) → warrior (37) → warrior (40) → archer (43) → settler (52) → builder (57)

and I’m thinking of switching to this:

Mashed: archer (34, current build) → archer (37) → Campus (44) → settler (51) → archer (54)
Dauphinoise: archer (34, current build) → warrior (37) → warrior (40) → settler (48) → archer (52)

It’s a little risky since the intended home guard units would be escorting settlers. However, the subsequent archers get built pretty quickly and I don’t know we’d be subject to an invasion in that time frame. This revised order lets Dauphinoise complete the cheaper cost settler, gets the Campus done earlier (more ) and founds cities on turns 52 and 58. Under the original plan they’d both found on Turn 56.

[suboptimal]

Turn 34

Mashed has grown and I move the new citizen to the PFH from the automatically assigned turtles. Archers from both cities are due out next turn. Down at Dauphinoise the builder puts down plantation #2. Pindicator’s scout remains in the fog somewhere to the west of the desert. The only place it could be is either around to the north of the mountain or where I put the Volcano Campus marker. The latter is more likely. Northern archers move and reveal another set of crabs off the coast east of Dauphinoise. No screenshot but it’s directly SE of the pearls over there.

At Wealth of Nations Pindicator has moved his slinger as anticipated and a second slinger has appeared in the city. He’s also bough a monument in the city:




His culture is now 4.8, which is a little lower than our now 5.3. We’re the bottom two in the cultural victory ranking.

Warrior moves west and finds a mountain directly west of the slinger. Hopefully it’s by itself or part of a short chain and I don’t need to go around the sea. That would suck. Should know more about that next turn.

Kaiser and Archduke completed their third civic.