A new mod enters the ring - Introducing "Close to Home"

[T-hawk]

Culture is included in GNP because the code that handles the demographics loops over all commerce types, which is everything that can be produced by the sliders. It was written that way to account for any mods introducing additional commerce types if they wanted. Which went on to include BTS itself when that added espionage points as a commerce and slider type.

It wouldn't be hard to exclude culture (and EP too if you wanted) from the places that iterate through all the commerce types, although it just might have to be several places in the code where you do it.

[greenline]

I just want to know why flanking attacks on siege were nerfed.

[Mjmd]

I just want to know why flanking attacks on siege were nerfed.

1) Mounted units are already some of the strongest units in civ4 multiplayer.
2) It made attacking even harder. If you can just easily flank away siege you can stop / stall an attack pretty easily. Attacking is hard enough.

[Tarkeel]

I've been doing somet thinking on the Vikings for no particular reason at all, and I think I have a clever suggestion: Swap around the bonus effects of the Viking TradingPost and the Portugese Feitoria.

As it currently stands, the Portugese Feitoria has a good bonus (+1c on all water tiles) on a late, expensive building that is rarely every build (180h Customs House), while the Vikings TradingPost has a borderline broken bonus (+1 move to all ships) on an early, cheap building that is built in every single coastal city (60/30h Lighthouse).

Giving the Vikings an early commerce boost from lighthouses might be a bit too good though, but it's still better than what they currently have.

[Miguelito]

Huayna of Vikings

The idea is debatable, but I feel Colossus lighthouses are too strong. Make them a harbour? But it's all far from home, and it would take away identity from Vikings.

In order to tone down Vikings while preserving what they are, the TP could give Nav 2 instead of 1, so you get easy 3 move galleys, but 4 moves are more of a challenge. Or well, make the TP a harbour, but it would be sad.

I don't think Vikings have been such a problem that they need culling. Of course they're very dependent on map/ settings, and occasionally they get their perfect storm.

Could also make the Feitoria a harbour, although that's still very strong.

[chumchu]

Another simple solution is for the trading post to give flanking 1. You still have much easier access to nav 1 and 2 but you have to work for it. Meanwhile it helps them a bit on the offence which also makes some sense historically.

[Tarkeel]

The idea is debatable, but I feel Colossus lighthouses are too strong. Make them a harbour? But it's all far from home, and it would take away identity from Vikings.

Historically the Vikings were more trader and explorers than raiders, ut guess what they are known for. Another option which would be even further from home is to introduce a new promotion that makes their ships ocean-going. Harbors aren't a bad suggestion really. As for far for home, that rule hasn't really applied to UB and UUs though.

In order to tone down Vikings while preserving what they are, the TP could give Nav 2 instead of 1, so you get easy 3 move galleys, but 4 moves are more of a challenge. Or well, make the TP a harbour, but it would be sad.

Actually that's how it works in practice; I had to check for PB73 as I made the same mistake that you just did. Nav2 is the only promotion in the game that requires it's predecessors prequisite as well. Still, having 3-move ships in an era when even road movement isn't always 2 tiles is brutal to defend against.

[Thoth]

I think giving the Vikings feitorias at Sailing is far too strong.

CtH already nerfs Vikings slightly by requiring Flanking 1 for Nav 2 (a good change imo).

Changing the free promo to Flanking 1 instead of Nav 1 would work but might be too big of a nerf.

[Tarkeel]

Just to clarify, my issue with the Vikings is that their power is entirely hit or miss: Either the +1 move is utterly broken, or it's irrelevant. If it gets dumped down to flanking, then they'd likely never be picked voluntarily.

I must admit that part of this suggestion is to highlight how different the two civs are treated; Both have bonuses that are probably too strong, but one is never ever used.

[pindicator]

You might as well rework all navy UUs then, because it's the same hit or miss aspect with all of them.

Edit: Honestly, the answer might be that you need to add a tech requirement to Nav-1 and/or Nav-2 promotions. At least, that's the only "close to home" solution I can think of.

Free Flanking 1 would be ok, but doesn't solve the issue of getting 4-move galleys early in the game