[spoilers] Pindicator and Regoarrarr - Bismark of Ethiopia

[pindicator]

Nakor just took our trade!

That means on this turn we gave up 702g & Gunpowder (2900b) and in return we got Printing Press (3800b) & Education (4900b)



Breakeven bpt is now 220, and Divine Right due in 8.

[regoarrarr]

We're cooking now baby!!!

Commodore played his turn so we are last to end turn. Krill has logged in and I wonder if he's trying to camp the turn, waiting for us to log in to try and get Printing Press?

[pindicator]

why are we waiting to end turn, btw?
i've been assuming you've left some things to do and left them unsaid, but no reason for us to hold things up if we don't need to

[regoarrarr]

Well Yuri logged in and got a score increase. I was confused because I thought it was him retaking our former city, but upon further review it was a 24 point increase, so I bet someone (Krill? Nakor?) traded him Gunpowder

He did not retake I'm on a Boat (at least as far as could be told from CivStats), and has ended turn, so we can play whenever

[regoarrarr]

So I can log in shortly, but I think that we should sell Gunpowder to Azza (last civ that doesn't have it) for whatever gold he has. Better he gets it from us than anyone else, and odds are that he'll get it from someone shortly

[regoarrarr]

Aaaaaand actually it looks like Azza got it late last turn. Signs pointing to Nakor (or Krill) as the tech-whore.

Actually it'd have to be Nakor, since Krill and Azza are at war

[regoarrarr]

In other tech news, as I keep regoarrarring up the thread, Nakor has teched Banking and Scooter got Replaceable Parts

I'd imagine he's going to Rifling and then Astronomy.

No other tech updates as far as I can tell, and here's the beaker counts

Scooter: 49362
Nakor the tech whore: 29284
Us: 28994
Krill: 20590
Yuris125: [strike]20204[/strike] [strike]21331[/strike] 20204
Azza: 17066
Commodore: [strike]15890[/strike] 16856
Cyneheard: 13702

So we're actually in pretty good shape there. I have adjusted the beaker counts for the RB mod beaker inflation, which makes Scooter's lead seem even more ginormous. I also used the in game values, as opposed to what the mod says it should be costing (See my post in the RB Mod thread in General Discussion for more info on that)

EDIT: Actually I missed that Commodore now has Paper, so I have updated his count

EDIT2: And Yuri has paper too, of course

EDIT3: But Yuri does not have Banking

[regoarrarr]

Well I AM who I YAM after all, so here's some more posting. At least I got some pics this time!!

First of all, the barbs have decided to found a city that is possibly even crappier than Korhal!!



Man that's a bad city. We'll detail a few units down there to mop that up and get some XP when we get a chance

And here is our force threatening our city of Lazy Sunday



He did get a 3rd longbow in there. Our Combat 3 knights have 64% on the top defender, so we will probably go forward with the attack. Better now than in a few turns when he can start deploying CG2 Muskets (thanks Nakor)

[pindicator]

Rego and I had a chat today. Well, we chat most days, but this one may be a little more entertaining considering it comes on the heels of discovering Nakor has sold gunpowder to yuri:

Regoarrarr: hey
freakin nakor (again)
pindicator: hey
Regoarrarr: hey
pindicator: well, there goes tech brokering :-p
Regoarrarr: so it seems like the meta game that is being played is "sell all techs you have to everyone for whatever you can get"
pindicator: which is really, really assinine
Regoarrarr: yeah
basically it means don't give any techs to nakor
pindicator: yeah
Regoarrarr: or anyone that does that
and guard your monopolies
pindicator: watch - this game is going to devolve into 'no tech trading' by default
Regoarrarr: which is fine
and kind of the point of rb mod, right?
pindicator: this gets back to the diplomacy issue
it seems the solution is "if you can't do it well then just get rid of it all"
anyway
i still think we got a win out of it - getting PP as cheap and as soon as we did
we just need more cats to finish off yuri now
Regoarrarr: yeah
my thoughts also
pindicator: but we can 1-turn cats from a couple spots, so i'm not too concerned
i'm more concerned about scooter and krill...
Regoarrarr: right
pindicator: really, i hope nakor gets eaten up by both of them
Regoarrarr: YEAH
yeah
pindicator: i mean, it's just BAD DIPLO, what nakor is doing
Regoarrarr: right
pindicator: he is basically telling us to screw off, when he should be trying to court us as an ally against krill or scooter
Regoarrarr: yeah
pindicator: later on when he's invaded and wondering why nobody helps him he'll have nobody to blame but himself
Regoarrarr: i don't know how he could think that selling iron or gunpowder to yuri would not piss us off
pindicator: what are we trading him right now?
whatever it is, cancel it as soon as possible
(unless we need it...)
Regoarrarr: it's spices for wheat i think
we can cancel in a few turns
and you're the one that wanted us not to declare war...
pindicator: well, that's when he hadn't gone completely mental
iron was a spit in the eye, easily avoided but to be remembered
adding on gunpowder so soon...
this makes me want to trade him something for GPT and then declare war the next turn
it's just blatant disrespect
Regoarrarr: lol
pindicator: i should calm down
Regoarrarr: i think you should get more worked up
pindicator: b/c honestly, what we should do is continue business as normal
Regoarrarr: so you log in now and declare war
on him and all his kin, for seven times seven generations
pindicator: and then stab him really good when he doesn't expec tit
exactly, but don't let him know it's coming!

Regoarrarr: unfortunately we're nowhere near him
nor ever likely to be
pindicator: just another reason to get astronomy
lol
we can also send a stack of knights through krill-land
i'm sure he'd get a kick out of that
Regoarrarr: i thought about it.....

so do you still feel good about DR now?
pindicator: did someone else pick it up?
Regoarrarr: no
but compared to astro or rifling
pindicator: let's stay on it then
after DR we should go for astro
Regoarrarr: maybe tonight we can nail down our uni and bank towns
and micro oxford
like you were saying
pindicator: did you see my 7 proposed?
Regoarrarr: yes
along with DR, that can help us figure out when we want to request stone
pindicator: yeah
good point
Regoarrarr: i mean we could definitely pay 5-10 or even more gpt for stone
or trade gems / dye / incense
pindicator: yeah, it'll only be 10 turns
Regoarrarr: and the hammer savngs will be worth it
pindicator: how much could he have gotten for gunpowder?
and really, it's not like it can save yuri any longer
this is a messed up state of the game when commodore is the person i trust the most...
Regoarrarr: lol
i bet 200g from azza and yuri each
he's only got like 500g in the bank right now
pindicator: apparently we gave him too good of a deal
do we want to try to do the same with PP?
or Edu?
Regoarrarr: i thought about it
but nobody has really any gold
krill has like 314
but that's the most
pindicator: no way does krill get any of those
Regoarrarr: yeah
but if we give it to someone else
pindicator: they may give it to krill...
Regoarrarr: aren't they likely to sell it to krill?
exactly
pindicator: no diplo doesn't work well with tech brokering
Regoarrarr: yeah
pindicator: i agree with pushing the attack on redstone
Regoarrarr: okay
probably cost us 2-3 knights
pindicator: knights are gonna be crap as soon as he is mass muskets
Regoarrarr: yeah
agreed
we can get one up to 17xp
does that unlock west point?
pindicator: not sure
Regoarrarr: lemme check
did you see the barb city?
pindicator: it's level 5 i think
Regoarrarr:
West Point: 550h, +5XP. Now requires a lvl 5 unit (17XP/13XP for Charismatic).
pindicator: yeah, that could be a fishing village
Regoarrarr: but there's no fish!!
pindicator: a very poor fishing village :-p
Regoarrarr: tourist beach spot?
pindicator: i wouldn't have advocated a settler there, but if the barbs are going to give us a free city, i say keep it, build a granary and a courthouse and call it good
Regoarrarr: okay well then i guess i'll wait for it to grow to size 2
pindicator: or burn it and hope the barbs come back for more xp
that's another option
the keep-it is more of a long-term plan
maybe we should burn it... we'd just be tempted to give it the cows if we kept it
and wait 5 minutes for me to flip flop again!
Regoarrarr: at least korhal got two tiles that weren't in any other cities bfc
this one gets coast and desert
pindicator: yeah, it's only worth it for coast
if that makes it worth it at all...
Regoarrarr: yeah
i mean i guess at max num cities
it would be a net positive
pindicator: yeah
Regoarrarr: especially with a temple and monastery and SM
pindicator: we'd probably want to steal the cows to build that then
Regoarrarr: or grass mines
pindicator: true
aw, let's keep it (it's been 5 min, right?)
Regoarrarr: lol
pindicator: when do you want to play the turn?
(i'm at work today)
Regoarrarr: probably better to do it tonight
pindicator: ok
Regoarrarr: i could do it now
but i probably SHOULD work
pindicator: i'm fine eithe rwya
i should too
Regoarrarr: okay so figure 9pm or so my time
pindicator: sounds good

TL;DR version:

* Nakor is now persona non grata and we will have our revenge
* some meta talk about the state of the tech trading in this game
* I flip flop about whether we should capture or raze the barb village
* A little talk about tech path and if we still want to stay on course with Divine Right
* Concern about Scooter getting Amphib Rifles before we're ready (he got RP this last turn)
* we decide to play later in the day

[regoarrarr]

So Yuri just logged in (again) after he had already ended turn and after we had logged in and did an additional 2 pop whip. Not a big deal, but I generally wish that he would not play after he's ended turn, to avoid double moves all around