[Spoiler PB62] Vanrober in a new chapter learning from Miguelito

[Miguelito]

fingers crossed for the scout!

I admit that the new tiles for the copper plant are quite uninspiring. I could try and argue that that dry patch actually makes the copper plant better, because we have to bridge the gap to the wheat if we want to expand in that direction, but a city on the PH east of the wheat works just as well if we plant your dot 2.

I agree that it doesn't look like Mjmd is coming in with skirmishers right now, but his behaviour has been strange - the EP might be an oversight, but if it continues it could also mean something. Him staying at size one so long is pretty weird. My horror explanation would be that he went straight for 2 workers, in order to move straight to chopping out skirmishers once he completes both BW and archery. But even then you would always want size 2, or wouldn't you?

So I still think that on the copper is a good and indeed the better spot, and it would leave me more relaxed, but I can accept if you're not enthusiastic about it. I have to admit that I missed that my spot loses 1 FP.

Btw considering that we're going with an unprotected settler, your spot 2 has the advantage that it will be inside our borders by turn 26.

[vanrober]

The scout won he had 55% odds to win, and got just 2 times atacked!!!! 0.8 life left, so i moved it towards the copper to heal it while we get hunting.

Im fine settlin on any spot, actually i was sold on copper. I think its just easier to get the copper in case mjmd is tryibg anything weird.

Feel free to log whenever you want, pass is "chem". I was so tired today to mae a better report.

Ill try to explain better next turn

[vanrober]

Turn 23

Finally got mjmd graphs, no rush at all, we are ahead on production and food, and power. So i think the gambit is good enough.

       

The thing is we are really close, so we wont be friends in this game i think. So the thing we need to think about is whether we go settling agro on him like the PH of gold or we go slower. But long term there is no way we are friends i believe. 

Tech, now we are making hunting, next pottery, and i think next we should get AH, horses might be important to be revealed for next settling. Also chariots might be a good scouting unit, since we are lacking knowledge of the map.

[Miguelito]

That power graph looks good, he hashas no archery yet. Watch out for a 6k increase, and then every skirmisher is 3k (but of course that can get mixed up with tech, growth, whips, and other units). BW is 8k, if he gets that archery will take a while longer (but skirms come faster afterwards. The next time you post power, please show the full screen with grid lines .
A very sneaky play would be to nearly finish archery, then research BW and archery within 2 turns and start whipping and chopping. But that would be pretty much all in, and he probably will prefer to use his IMP trait.

Link https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/t...ed.163098/
Be sure to always use BTS values.

Let's talk about forward settling once we have copper and see which direction Mjmd's going.

[vanrober]

Okey ill do that with power graphs, but yeah it clearly seems he has not none of those yet.

[vanrober]

Ohw so nice i see you in game. What are your thoughts? Did i miss something to say?

[Miguelito]

I think I do have some news:


Mjmd has AH, I'm pretty sure. I had been wondering over the day how his latest power increase came about, because that's two 2k increases over 2 turns. He can't one turn warriors, so one of them had to be a tech, and the only options are:

2000 soldiers – Sailing, Hunting, Mining, Animal Husbandry

But we knew he researched Hunting early and started with Mining. Now that seemed pretty fast, but on the small map AH costs 140b and that's 10 turns with double arrow bonus, which he gets (he has an improved wheat, so he researched agri before hunting).


So now we need spears on top of axes . Did you know that you can see a horse in his borders even if we don't have the tech yet? The tile yield adjusts if he has it visible. Of the capital tiles that we have uncovered none is a horse, but that of course helps us little.

The upside is that he's pretty far away from BW and Archery yet. Imp without BW must feel sad. Also seems like Mali doesn't really suit his tech needs, he should've left it to us

I also had not gathered from your reports that you actually had found Bing's borders already. Man this map is tight. The big question of course is what we're going to find to our south yet. I placed a marker for Bing's capital.

I refrained from dotmapping, because it will all get thrown over once Mjmd plants his first city, but if you actually want to settle up on him I think on top of the gold is best. That gets more floodplains, which arguably are better tiles than a desert gold hill - especially considering that we have an economy trait but weaker expansion than Fin, so we need to max our foodhammers. It also is a better defensive position, because Mjmd's can't place skirmishers on a hill behind that city and our capital.

Finally it allows a city on the eastern copper hill (if not blocked by Fabled, although I admit it's quite likely for him to settle W of the pig); that would give us strategic access towards the Mongols, with an excellent border. Again, Fabled is probably the best target in this field. The FPH plant is excellent defensively against the Mongols, but I think the offensive value is lesser, with both cities' 2nd rings just touching. With Cre I think we want to settle cities 3 or 4 tile away from his, to exert culture pressure on his borders.

[vanrober]

Ohw mig really nice look at power. I knew he had AH, since 3 people already know AH and we just know 3 people xD

I didnt know the tip of looking for horses, great!

About knowing bing, we knew his capitol several turns ago, and i looked back, you can reread post 94.


About the dotmap, im just thinking some, eventhough its too early, we will see what mjmd does and how we can follow. But since we are really tight, i think Mjmd is going to be an enemy whatever we do. Not sure if you have the same feeling or not.

[Miguelito]

Ohw mig really nice look at power. I knew he had AH, since 3 people already know AH and we just know 3 people xD

d'oh, that's a lot easier . Also converts the warrior? of Fabled's into AH, fine.

About knowing bing, we knew his capitol several turns ago, and i looked back, you can reread post 94.

post 94 is about Fabled . You mentioned having found Bing, but I wasn't sure if it was just the scout. Had not seen th egreen borders bleeding in from the fog.

About the dotmap, im just thinking some, eventhough its too early, we will see what mjmd does and how we can follow. But since we are really tight, i think Mjmd is going to be an enemy whatever we do. Not sure if you have the same feeling or not.

I mean it's going to be tense, yes. But everybody will have very close neighbours here (although our settler move was towards him, so we're extra close). He is probably not the easiest available target for expansion if our other neighbours are Bing and Fabled. So the question is, can we set up a border with him that we can both live with until at least the Rennaissance. It's going to be difficult no doubt. But there is no winning* in a conflict against him before knights, so we really should try to avoid tilting him, if we think that is even possible without serving him our capital on a silver plate.

* in the sense of an actually profitable war. We could of course repel an offensive from him as long as we pay attention, but I don't see how we'd ever make more than very marginal conquests. Of course if we could take or burn his cap with a surprise 10 HAs it might be worth considering, but I think he's too smart for that, and he's Mali.

[vanrober]

I also had not gathered from your reports that you actually had found Bing's borders already. Man this map is tight. The big question of course is what we're going to find to our south yet. I placed a marker for Bing's capital.

Im sorry, i need to learn to read. Yeah i didnt mention that, beacuse i didnt notice until you just told me. I needed to log in again to see where it was. Ohw men, this is so cramped, i thought he was more in the north, where i found his scout...

I mean it's going to be tense, yes. But everybody will have very close neighbours here (although our settler move was towards him, so we're extra close). He is probably not the easiest available target for expansion if our other neighbours are Bing and Fabled. So the question is, can we set up a border with him that we can both live with until at least the Rennaissance. It's going to be difficult no doubt. But there is no winning* in a conflict against him before knights, so we really should try to avoid tilting him, if we think that is even possible without serving him our capital on a silver plate.

* in the sense of an actually profitable war. We could of course repel an offensive from him as long as we pay attention, but I don't see how we'd ever make more than very marginal conquests. Of course if we could take or burn his cap with a surprise 10 HAs it might be worth considering, but I think he's too smart for that, and he's Mali.

YEah, it would be nice if we could focus on Bing or Fabled, but im not sure thats possible.


I was thinking more into chokonus rush somehow, not like we want colossus, but i think it would be interesting to see them in action, i ve never done that with them. But yeah mjmd is smart, also pindi, so i dont think it would work.

But yeah a second ring city of us deny his second city (in PB56 all the trouble with Ruff was because we wanted a 3rd ring city that deny his second ring one) So in this case its even worse... I really think Mjmd will settle in those 3 tiles south of his capitol to deny our city on a hill, it would be so nice for us... In PB56 he settled a couple of cities so that i couldnt settle in a hill, and that made my empire fall faster than i would wanted. Im sorry i tried not to mention PB56 again :/