[SPOILERS - PBEM17] Kyan Does Dallas. The Orange Sensation.

[oledavy]

William Shakespeare's Golden Age continued, and I kept on building infrastructure and running specialists. Henry Ford was born in Damascus last turn and is headed for Constantinople to build the Taj.



One great person down, four more to go I thought of another way to leverage the golden age. After the waiting period for the first civics change ends, I'm going to switch into Pacifism for 6 turns to give me an additional +100% Great Person Generation. I adjusted my missionary priorities to Jericho, Acre and Jerusalem accordingly. My military is small enough that the increased upkeep costs will not be too severe - and this will still allow me to switch into Theocracy for the end of the Golden Age. Constantinople will produce the next Great Person in 3 turns, running five scientists and an engineer in addition to the 2 wonders already producing GPP. Here's hoping it's not a spy or prophet!

I got this message from Darrell before the start of this turn.

[COLOR="Yellow"]Krill the Clever found a way to offer 274 gold to each of you this turn, even though I don't have it. Updated ledger:

Dave = 998 - 274 = 724
Shoot = 670 - 274 = 396

Darrell
[/COLOR]

I am really curious as to how 'Krill the Clever' made that work. My best guess is that he had 274 saved, and was due to earn that amount for his next turn. So, he offers us each 274 gold and next turn he starts with 0 gold. That payment allowed me to continue my 100% research and got me into nationalism.

NoSpace didn't get any new techs, I believe they're running break-even research into printing press based on the graphs and the diplo screen.

The vote for the Apostolic Palace came up this turn.



Vote for Rego or abstain.....like my 9 votes mean anything anyway. I voted for Rego in the end.

I noticed this turn, that by possessing music and nationalism, I'll be in good shape to tech Military Tradition if I want to at some point in the future. Finally, this turn I got Rego and Darrell's maps.



I'll soon have Shoot's and hopefully NoSpace's as well. I'll be putting up a detailed population and infrastructure analysis at some point later today after I have some time to study the maps.

[oledavy]

Warning: Massive Photo Dump Commencing

I went around Rego's territory and studied the state of his infrastructure to compare to my own and to get a feel of where stand compared to the other players. I imagine he'll be doing a state of empire post on turn 100, so it will be fun to see how far off I was in this post.

Plako

Population: 16
Buildings: Barracks, Courthouse, Market, Jewish Monastary, Forge, Library, Terrace, Aqueduct,
National Wonders: Palace, National Epic
World Wonders: The Oracle, The Great Library
- It appears Rego is using Plako as a Great Person farm and to grow cottages? A sub-optimal combination but it has the food resources to support it. Like Jerusalem this city is also deficient in hammers.

Zakalwe

Population: 13
Buildings: Lighthouse, Library, Jewish Temple, Jewish Monastery, TEmple of Solomon, COurthouse, Barracks, Terrace, Market, Forge
World Wonders: The Colussus, The Temple of Solomon
- Not much to say here, a commerce and hammer city.

Mardoc

Population: 10
Buildings: Jewish Monastary, Barracks, Forge, Lighthouse
- The land around Mardoc needs some serious worker turns, but in the future it could turn into quite the commerce center.

Sciz

Population: 8
Buildings: Terrace, Jewish Monastery, Jewish Temple, Market, Forge, Courthouse, Barracks.
- Another hybrid hammers/commerce city.

Pindicator

Population: 17
Buildings: Terrrace, Jewish Monastery, Jewish Temple, Barracks, Forge, Courthouse, Library, Market, Aqueduct, Lighthouse
National Wonders: Moai Statues
World Wonders: The University of Sankore
- A true gem of a city and the largest city on the map, working all those Moai enhanced coastal tiles.

Profane

Population: 4
Buildings: Terrace, Jewish Monastery, Jewish Temple, Forge, Barracks
- Small city with only a grassland cows, a weak food bonus. It looks like Rego has been whipping it excessively to get all that infrastructure in place.

Mackoti

Population: 7
Buildings: Terrace, Library, Courthouse, Jewish Monastery, Jewish Temple, Market, Barracks, Forge
- This city also has a weaker food bonous (plains wheat) but Rego has a lot of infrastructure in place here now and is currently growing cottages. Mackoti is additionally the Christian Holy City.

Commodore

Population: 7
Buildings: Terrace, Courthouse, Forge, Market, Jewish Monastery, Jewish Temple.
World Wonders: The Apostolic Palace
- The land around the city is a tad under-developed. I believe he may have chopped the Apostolic Palace out. Commodore is currently growing cottages.

SevenSpirits

Population: 8
Buildings: Terrace, Barracks, Jewish Temple, Jewish Monastery, Courthouse, Forge, Lighthouse, LIbrary
- Rego has chopped or slaved a lot of infrastructure here, I believe SevenSpirits is a Specialist City or fishing village.

T-Hawk

Population: 6
Buildings: Terrace, Library, Forge, Jewish Temple, Jewish Monastery, Lighthouse.
- A fishing village with a rocking three food bonuses.

SuckitLebron

Population: 6
Buildings: Lighthouse, Terrace, Jewish Monastery, Forge
- The land around SuckitLebron is still pretty underdeveloped, and right now if focusing on growing a couple cottages.

Nowitzkiville

Population: 4
Buildings: Terrace, Forge, Jewish Temple, Jewish Monastery
- Fishing village, not much to say here.

Sunrise089

Population: 4
Buildings: Lighthouse, Terrace, Forge, Jewish Monastery, Jewish Temple
- Looks like a long-term cottage plant

Ilios

Population: 4
Buildings: Terrace, Forge, Jewish Monastery
- This city has decent long-term commerce and production potential, is hampered right now by the surrounding jungle.

Bato

Population: 4
Buildings: Terrace, Courthouse, Jewish Temple, Jewish Monastery
- This city has a weak food bonus, and the terrain is underdeveloped for the time being. Long-term could support some cottages

Tatan

Population: 1
- Planted within the last few turns.

Not Pictured
Ichabod
Population: 1

Not Pictured
Action Dip
Population: 1

In a bit of an unsporting move, Rego traded maps before founding Ichabod and Action Dip on one of his outer islands. He's now up to 18 cities, compared to my 17. He has a total of 121 population to my 106 - so I'm behind about one pop in every city on average, not a winning proposition.

I made an Excel Chart of what builds we had constructed, if anyone has question about the chart please comment and ask.



A few thoughts and observations:
- If there was any doubt that Rego pursuing a priest economy, this survey confirmed it. He has a grand total of 26 religious buildings.
- Rego has really been pushing those industrious forges.
- I have significantly more creative libraries, as well as lighthouses - which makes sense considering how I have been emphasizing working coastal tiles to take advantage of financial, and later on, dikes.
- He has a slight lead in barracks, markets and courthouses.
- He does not have any harbors or theatres, confirming that he has neither compass or drama. My significant head start on throwing up harbors is really cool and bodes well for my economy long-term.

Overall, his lands were less-developed than mine, to my surprise. I have more mature cottages and fewer unimproved tiles. It appears he emphasized establishing a better road network early on.

In order to catch up with Rego in terms of infrastructure, I need to emphasize growing my population and continue building courthouses, markets and harbors.

Note: For anyone out there who hoped to see this level of investigation for every civ, I will be doing this in-depth for just Rego and NoSpace. NoSpace because I'll soon be at war with them and it will help the planning of the campaign; and Rego because he is the score leader and more likely to be a long-term foe. I simply don't have the time to do this for everyone. However, analyzing Rego's state of empire has helped me get a better idea of where I stand. I'll have a Excel chart of Darrell's infrastructure and a brief summary of his development up later today.

[oledavy]

I'll let the numbers do the talking.



Overall, I have to say I am little surprised of how far behind in infrastructure Darrell is.

- He has wisely leveraged education into building six universities, so we can expect to see Oxford completed shortly. Philosophical Universities = Quick Oxford Build = scary tech rate
- I have a similar edge in libraries as I did over Rego.
- Darrell built stonehenge and got all those Obelisks for free.
- I have a few more forges and markets.
- We're about equal in lighthouses, it makes sense that he'd prioritize those since he's financial.
- He built two walls? I guess he felt threatened at some point. The one in Thailand is understandable because it's on NoSpace's tentacle and steals their iron, but walls in England?
- He has no barracks anywhere!? How does he expect to be ready for invading NoSpace again?

As with Rego, my lands were overall more developed than Darrell's, I guess Kyan just prioritized building more workers.



Not a single tile on that jungle arm has been improved. Granted it may not have been possible because of the risk of war with NoSpace, but it is still a little shocking to me. Those are unimproved resources right outside a size 9 city for crying out loud! Not chopping those jungles will make defending Thailand difficult, allowing a defender to waltz right up to the city with a 50% defensive bonus every step of the way.

[Kyan]

Dave, the effort you put into this game and thread is incredible. You're a real asset to both this game and these forums in my opinion.

I'm glad you found my start manageable and am eager to see how it all goes down.

[Lord Parkin]

I'm very impressed with the individual city analysis. I've never bothered to put that much effort into figuring out what buildings each city has myself, but it's certainly useful information to have if you have the time and willpower to put in.

[oledavy]

A slightly troubling turn of events diplomatically, but overall a quiet turn. Nothing completed, a few cities grew, and I got a little closer to the four great people I'm working on generating. The Statue of Zeus is due to complete in Jaffa next turn. Nationalism completes as well and Henry Ford is almost in place to rush the Taj.



It seems that the birth of Henry Ford sent off mild panic attacks around the world. All four other players chatted with me at some point, asking who's Great Engineer was born.

Darrell asked, and when I told him that Henry Ford was mine and I was going to rush the Taj, he asked if there was any way he could talk me out of it. Turns out he and Krill were in the process of chopping it out, due t103. I believe they were working on it in Russia, the only city with substantial forests still standing.



I feel a little duplicitous for not telling him sooner - I was concerned he may chop it out before I could rush it - and for not heading to astronomy right away. Then again, I did what was in the best interests of my civilization, and I didn't lie to anyone. Still, I feel this will cast a slight pall on our relationship for awhile.

This turn, Darrell gifted 8 gold back to Shoot and myself:

[COLOR="Yellow"]Dave = 724 - 8 = 716
Shoot = 396 - 8 = 298

Darrell[/COLOR]

I had an extensive conversation with Shoot last night over a variety of issues.

- NoSpace has archery, which I would not see since i don't have hunting, I added this to my tech spreadsheet.
- NoSpace is not terribly happy with Rego, who lied about the placement of Sunrise089, asking Shoot to take a suboptimal spot and not giving him the promised re-imbursement - he asked that I not tell Darrell of his feelings.
- NoSpace is about to finish gunpowder, Rego is 1t from completing education.
- The Great Lighthouse City is 3W and 1S of Cornered Market, neither cities I have visibility on.
- I said I would try to butter NoSpace up and get their map as soon as possible.
- We spoke regarding force composition and planning for Operation Sledgehammer - we agreed he should build up a force of knights and draft jans (he already has guilds).
- Lastly, it turns out Shoot has been keeping rough tabs on NoSpace's armies, and has a pretty good idea of what he has at the moment:

2 crossbows
4 horse archers
10 catapults
2 longbowmen
2 triremes
2 galleys
About a dozen warriors and archers.

This leaves a pretty small soldier count unaccounted for. Overall, I'm surprised at the size of NoSpace's armies. I was expecting them to be a bit more paranoid and build up a few knights.

The Rego/Shoot divide is interesting, especially because I'm vaguely considering military action against Rego in the future (provided we don't get stomped my NoSpace). Shoot wants Sunrise089 to burn before the end of this game, and I would love to help him Still, a lot of time to consider future wars of of conquest. In the meantime, I need to focus on getting Operation Sledgehammer off the ground.

I spoke to Spacemanf briefly this morning, trying to get my claws on their map. Spacemanf came asking if I had birthed a GE. After telling him yes, I asked him for a map trade - saying that I had all four other maps and would trade them for his. He refused sadly, saying Novice was dead set against it for the time being (I imagine it will remain this way until they get rifles). So, it seems I will not be able to perform extensive C&D work on NoSpace or plan this invasion with a complete map. Existing maps and screenshots it is then!

The one chilling scenario with NoSpace is that they get rifling before we land. I estimate they're 18 turns out from it if they beeline and don't bulb anything. Their recent research into alphabet and gunpowder suggests that route though (Alpha, GP, PP, RP, Rifling ). I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

[oledavy]

I just had a short conversation with Rego - we didn't discuss anything of much importance, but I wanted to share it nonetheless.

He ribbed me about grabbing three wonders (The Shwedagon Paya, The GW, The SOZ) - my response was something like: I CAN'T RESIST, THEY'RE SHINY!!!! It may be suboptimal play on my part, going for multiple lower strength wonders - only time will tell.

It turns out he's going for the Parthenon, and was very curious what I planned on spending my GE on. I assured him it wasn't the Parthenon or the Spiral Minaret - but he continued pressing, at which point I told him just to wait and see what I rushed. It occurs to me now that I should have lied and tried to extort something out of him for not rushing the Parthenon. What can I say, I'm not very cuthroat at diplomacy.

[oledavy]

The setting sun cast shadows through the throne room as the Grandmaster of the Knights Templar, walked over the window, took in a deep breath, and steeled himself for his visitor.

"Let him in."

The guards swung open the huge double doors and Novice, First Consul of the Straight Talking Empire, strode into the room, flanked by an entourage. Waving his hand he said: "leave us be!" Those accompanying the Consul filed out of the room and into the ante-chamber. The Templar guards were hesitant to leave their leader, but the Grandmaster nodded and they to joined those outside the throne room.

Novice bowed "A pleasure to meet with you in person Grandmaster."

The grandmaster bowed tersely: "I trust your journey to Jerusalem was pleasant."

"It was, and may I compliment you on your beautiful..."

The Grandmaster cut him off: "No formalities, why are you here?"

Not missing a beat, Consul Novice continued: "I am here to discuss closer relations between our two great empires."

The Grandmaster turned, eyebrow raised: "Closer relations, what do you mean?"

"I mean, would you war with us, for plunder and to expand your kingdom?" Novice walked over to the window, looking our over the city of Jerusalem. "We passed through the great port of Constantinople on the way here, and saw great ships in the works, East Indiamen your people call them. Your shipbuilders are more skilled than any in our empire, and if possible, we would purchase some of these magnificent vessels from you."

The Grandmaster thought it over: "What do you offer in return?"

The Consul motioned over to a long wooden box one of his aides had brought in. "Open it." he said.

The Grandmaster walked over and opened the box, inside was a firearm, not unlike those that his scientists we're currently experimenting with, but different somehow. He picked it up, "a musket?"

Novice walked over, grinning. "A rifle, our sages are currently developing these, soon we will arm our forces with them. They shoot farther and more accurately than muskets. In return for ships, we would offer to trade you enough rifles to outfit many of your own regiments."

The Grandmaster set the weapon back down in the case carefully. "Who would these be used against?"

Novice's smile grew sour: "The blasted Ottomans or the Incans, take your pick - what we offer is the chance to go to war together and share the spoils."

The Grandmaster weighed this offer carefully: "The Ottomans are our allies, and we could never betray them. The Incans, however, are another story, we may consider military action against them. Why do you desire to go to war?"

"Our people are not talented in the finer arts of finances, and we are concerned that in the future we may fall behind other nations because of our lake of financial savvy."

He turned to face Novice: "Allow me to consult with my advisors, I will come to your capital myself to deliver the answer." Novice bowed graciously: "We eagerly await your response, keep the rifle to show your council." He turned and exited the room.

The Grandmaster stood in thought for a moment. The guards re-entered, giving him a quizzical look.

The Grandmaster looked up: "Summon my council, and order two schooners prepared to sail on the evening tide. We must quickly send word of this to Brazil and Istanbul."


So yeah, a serious question to those lurking here. What should I do? Steam ahead with the plan to take down NoSpace or go for a 4v1 vs. Rego?

[Kyan]

You need him to be considerably more specific, who gets what cities?

Who gets the shrine?

Also, if you are going to do this, which is not a terrible idea, ensure you have significant NAPs with the others and something in place for when the war ends. Once you've sold him East Indiamen, you're not getting them back. Also, is he really that close to rifling? I thought you said he had some time to go. Bearing in mind the past in this game, it wouldn't surprise me if novice either exagerrated or outright lied.

[oledavy]

We haven't discussed who gets what as of yet. He just got alphabet, and is researching gunpowder, so he just has Printing Press and Replaceable Parts to go before he can research rifling. I estimated he has approximately 16 turns to go before he gets there, provided he doesn't bulb anything.

I hadn't even thought of who gets the shrine city yet. It's a 19GPT shrine I believe.

He offered riflemen for East Indiamen. If I go through with this, I was planning on charging him two riflemen for each - with a provision that they are never used against me.