[SPOILERS] Dazed and Whosit walk the line: Darius of Egypt

[Whosit]

I believe that Worker 1 should get to the pigs the same turn that the settler gets to the spot, so pigs could start being pastured on T23, not 24. At least, that was my experience in my Sandbox.

I'll have to try out your refined plan, Serdoa, but if that's right it sounds great if we'd be able to squeeze out an extra worker while getting SH a turn earlier! I'm guessing we'd then have at least one Worker start roading to City 3 spot?

For city 2, are you talking about build warrior to size 2 (finish warrior), then do Worker as 2nd build?

[Serdoa]

City 2: You should get 1 hammer from the center tile + 1 hammer from the pigs. So 5 turns for a warrior with the city at 16/14 food when it finishes by the above plan (pigs at T26 - growth and warrior at EOT27). You could work Cottage for a little bit more commerce, but if you don't need it to get Myst in time, I would value the hammers (and to have the city 2 turns earlier able to start a worker, gaining you 2 more worker turns as well) higher.

As for the pig-improvement: I'm not sure how you would get the worker on the pigs on T22. On your screenshot he is on the silk-tile on T20. I assumed you had started to road it on T20? That would finish T21, so he could move T22. But from the silk to the pigs it is 3 tiles, so I don't see how he could be on the pigs on T22. And not doing the road is imo not worth it. That would delay SH by a turn and the gain would just be 3 food. That does not seem worth it in my books (if you go for the wonder, go for it, don't try to compromise and lose it, that would set you back much more than losing out on 3 food imo).

And yes, worker 1 can start to road to the next city site on T31. If you move worker 3 on T32 on the hill 1SE of the city and start to mine it your next settler finishes on T35. (T32: 4 overflow + 15fh, T33: 15fh, T34: 15fh, T35: 16fh (mine finished) = 65 hammers).

[Whosit]

@Serdoa: I was mistaken, but I will respond more fully in a second post.

For I have taken the liberty of playing the turn this morning, as I was 99% sure that we were all in agreement on the next steps to take. So as long as I didn't just make any misclicks... it was a big turn!

Southwest:



I'd have liked to keep exploring, much like dazed would have liked to explore the Northeast more thoroughly, but it was time to turn back so our capital would be defended. Sadly, nothing of immediate interest down here.

Northeast:



Same here, moving our Warrior to defend City 2 (There You Go) as our Settler has finished, and Pound the Worker will be moving to the pigs (both Settler and Worker are on the same forest tile right now).

French North:



I opted to go Northeast because I saw the edge of water, and going East or Southeast wouldn't reveal anything we didn't already know. We'll probably want to discuss which way to explore next,; I vote SE.

Finally, Bronze Working finished at the end of the turn:



As you can see, our borders will expand in two turns, so we can hook up the Copper at our leisure. However, I imagine getting the Horses is still #1 priority. So far, it's not clear if we can place a city to take advantage of this resource. Hopefully there is food to the south.

Also, we got eyes on NC's graphs this turn:









I believe what's most useful to note is that we're basically even with him, so that should help us narrow down who is who in the demos screen (I'm still pretty sure that Commodore is generally leading, and that AT is trailing in the Soldiers, due to his starting techs).

I will attempt to analyze this turns demos soon. Everyone got a score increase (Commodore is leading, of course). It appears he's leading by a pop point, but the population screen showed no sign of growth anywhere, or any change at all. Will have to look into this further (he gained a total of 24 points since last turn). Everyone got 18 points, so that means... Oh, yes, he got a tech. He just has a pop lead on us, probably is what that is.

Anyway, more on that in a bit. It's all been put into the Google doc that you both should have access to.

Note that no population increases means that no one else has a second city yet. They could of course have Settlers running around, but at the very least we shouldn't be behind anyone for second city! I think this is the point in the game where the big divergences are going to happen.

[Whosit]

My laptop died just as I was finishing my second post. Piece of junk....

Anyway, I was saying something along the lines of: In my sandbox game, I opted for City 2 to do a Warrior first, grow to 2, then Worker. So our 4th Worker might be slightly delayed. However, I think it's good to have a spare Warrior, who can go defend City 3 spot. We'll want him earlier, especially if SH fails, I think.

Otherwise, Commodore got Bronze Working since he got an 8K jump in power. Otherwise, we're mostly even in Demos with people.

I'm guessing we're doing a horizontal approach to expansion, lots of cities, and if I remember correctly, that means we'll be behind in demos compared to anyone doing a vertical approach, right? Until our cities grow and catch up.

So that was the short version of what I was saying.

Oh, right. For the SH plan, I didn't catch on at first that the extra chop was coming from the Worker at City 2, moving 2SW. So when that happens, make sure we assign that forest tile to Walk the Line! Hopefully we can fully agree on the worker plans up until T32. After that I had the thought to do Settler in cap right away. (Revolt to Slavery when that Settler is in transit?) I had some ideas on worker actions, but maybe I'll shelve that for now and work on it some.

[Serdoa]

I think doing Settler directly after SH is fine. As I pointed out last post, it will finish without chop or whip on T35. Thats not awfully early tbh but with SH it is fine.

Also, I think you really have to be careful with the worker actions, we don't have a spare turn in there at all. If they are screwed up, SH is inevitably delayed by a turn. Did cost me certainly some time to come up with the actions in the right order to get it finished by that turn (well, ok, that was mostly because I wanted it T30, but there is no way to get 4 chops by that turn into SH if we also want to get 2 workers - and without them this plan would be really bad as it would set you guys back too much).

I think growing from city 2 T23 till EOT27 is fine via the pig-tile is fine. Work from T28 on the pigs + either the forested grassland or cottage for another worker on EOT35 respectively EOT36. That one can improve the sheep while the city grows on cottage and pigs in 3 turns to size 3 (1 overflow food). With pigs, sheep, cottage you'll grow from T39 to EOT40 to 4 without overflow food. If you have roaded to city 3 (ballad of a queen) the settler from city 1 should move to it T36, settle T37, border pop EOT41. Pre-roaded furs means you should be able to improve it by T44 latest. So city 2 can grow T41-T43 to size 5 and on T44 that 5th citizen will not be unhappy, due to furs. If you have improved 2 grassland hills that city will produce 17fh per turn (sheep, pigs, horse, 2 GLH-Mines, City Center), enough for 4 turn settlers. That should help you catch up to the ones who have expansion traits.

[Whosit]

Yeah, we don't want to screw up the Worker stuff! I'll practice in the Sandbox a few more times (Dazed, maybe you should, too, if you have the time?), and it might be wise to throw down a few in-game signs as reminders just to make sure everything stays on track.

I'll check out your City 2 growth plan later when I have some more time. Will the Warrior finish, or are you leaving it partially built? I'm also partial to working the Cottage over the forest because I'd like to keep that extra commerce coming, though I suppose some number-crunching/test playing should be done to see if that's the ideal course of action. Still, at this point, 4 c/turn isn't something to sneeze at, even if it delays a build by a turn, I think?

Oh! Next turn player if it isn't me: Mysticism is next! Because we want to be able to build SH. Uh... and here's crossing fingers, I guess? 10 turns away if all goes according to plan.

Oh, question: If MH starts building Stonehenge, will his bonus production show up in the demos? My recollection is that they will, but if not, that is also useful to know. I suppose I could test stuff out myself, later.

[Serdoa]

Not sure on the demo-stuff, but I don't think it will.

As for the warrior in city 2, it will finish if you work the pig from when you settle till you grow. That you really should do, because delaying the worker by 2 turns (warrior would take 2 turns more if you work the cottage for the first 3 turns of settling that city) is not good. When you then build the worker at size 2, I believe it is fine to work the cottage instead of a forest. Especially as I am wrong with the the turn when that worker is finished. That should be EOT33, not 36, when you work the cottage. And of course EOT32 if you work a forest. So you can move all the turn-times I wrote down from the finish of the worker by 3 turns. Means you'll probably can squeeze out another worker before you grow to 5 (as you'll not have the happy to grow to 5 at that point and you should be able to finish another worker in 3 turns with sheep, horse, pig, cottage - just need 1 overflow hammer).

Best to write that stuff down in an excel-table, but I won't have time for that right now, I'm sorry. PB8, PBEM46 (and the war there) and PBEM47 take up much time. +WW20, work + wife and it gets hard to find the time to work out those plans in detail. I hope it still helps, just to give you other ideas or get another look at the position you are in And of course, if you have clear ideas (like getting SH) I'm happy to think about how to get it done as quickly as possible with as much extra as possible.

[Whosit]

You certainly are juggling a lot of things, Serdoa! But dazed and I definitely appreciate your input when you're able to give it. I'll run those things through the good ol' sandbox later today. I'm sure the numbers work out, I just like to feel how it works out. And when you're talking about size 5, I'm guessing you mean city 2 (or any non-cap city) since they don't get the Palace happy. At least we'll end up with Furs soonish. Gems need IW to unlock, and the Whales will need Optics. Not sure how quickly we should go for Optics, as that often seems like an out-of-the-way tech. However, Furs and Whales get doubled with a Market, so getting Optics for +2 Happy may certainly be worth it.

All speculation.... Of course, I'm also still gunning for CoL with a switch to Confucianism (happy), running Priests from an Obelisk to make a GP for the Shrine (monies), and we'll want to scoop up Monotheism for Organized Religion, I think. So many things to do.... But hopefully with some quick expansion and plenty of Cottages, we can afford to do most of it!

[dazedroyalty]

I played the turn since we've had it all day. Settled city 2! I think we're tied for 1st to settle since Commodore is ahead of us. I started research on Mysticism. No screenshots... unfortunately. Too tired from a very long day.

[Whosit]

Thanks for playing the turn. I was holding onto it on the off-chance that we'd get to confer, though I guess there wasn't really much to say besides where our most distant scout would go.

I'll try to grab the next one so I can throw in a bunch of signs for the workers and stuff.

I hope you set There You Go to build Worker and work the Pigs instead of the Cottage.