Suboptimal IV: Indonesian Insanity

[Cornflakes]

Of course, I could slot Discipline the turn after next as I don’t need Maritime Industries right now….

Might as well slot Discipline if non of the other military cards benefit you. I spend most of the ancient and classical era in PBEM11 with Discipline slotted.

If I go Settler -> Govt Plaza -> Holy Site at Punky's and do one jungle chop before Magnus and one after (builder idles for ~10 turns while waiting) we can get the settler out on Turn 51, Govt Plaza on Turn 56 and Holy Site on Turn 66 assuming no further chops - we'd have to buy the Holy Site tile. After that the city can go to naval builds. That has Liang ready to go for the start on Monumentality.

This sounds like a good plan.

It looks like Woden bought the forest that is in his culture (southernmost tile of his culture), maybe a builder will show up there soon? Natural expansion would have claimed the sugar instead. His borders are still dashed so maybe best to press straight on into his culture? Disrupt builder movements, uncover as much intel as possible [EDIT: also reveal his pantheon choice and see if it is God of War].

Once you deal with the barb quad, send one of the galleys around the continent to assist if one of Woden's cities is coastal. Even just the ability to maintain full siege on a coastal city will make it's support worthwhile.

[suboptimal]

Turn 40

With an opponent located (finally) there’s a bit more of an...edge...to opening a save now. I’d use the gift analogy but I think I already used that one at the start of PBEM 10 (or was it PBEM 6 *shudder*). There are no notifications. The barbarian quadrireme moved north but did not attack. Instead, it’s just west of the sugar, out of range of the northern galley for the time being but I can get in a first strike with the southern one, inflicting 30 points and taking 25. I’ll have Discipline in next turn and finish this boat off, unless it retreats.

Shipbuilding is still two turns out so I switch back to the GFH at the capital. Warrior is done next turn. Up at Punky’s I mine the copper, getting the boost for Wheel. I also move the builder to the Holy Site location and purchase the tile. Next turn I’ll chop out the jungle and place the Holy Site.

In the east the warrior is almost fully healed. Time to scout around some more. I send it into the marsh and will top the hill to the SE next turn. At Carthage I find a promoted Macedonian warrior and some stone inside the city’s boundaries. With visibility on Carthage what we’re going to be doing will not be a surprise to Woden as he’ll see the governor go in (even though it’ll have a question mark icon there’s only one that can be put in a city-state). The good news is the presence of our warriors outside the borders will recall both of Carthage’s units. It also means we know where 40% of his current military is. I also have to wonder if the cash register was him meeting Carthage, not Nan Madol.

In the far east the builder has disappeared, I assume to go through the mountain pass. I continue moving units between the mountains and Nan Madol. The city-state is now population 4 and has built another warrior. I wonder if this city’s AI has gotten stuck on “Build Units”. That isn’t a bad thing, I think. I send the northermost warrior 2NW and see more city borders in the fog. The borders are close enough to Carthage where I can get everything in one screenshot. I’ll update this post later, once I get the screenshot sorted

He must have scouted in the wrong direction to have missed Carthage being that close to his capital. Next turn I’ll move the warrior onto the hill to gain visibility of Methone’s center.

Cornflakes, I checked Nan Madol’s warriors – none have experience or promotions (yet).

Next turn I’ll be switching to Discipline + Colonization. Discipline will stay around through the completion of State Workforce so I can get the benefit for the galleys and then the warrior. I’ll probably go into Conscription once State Workforce completes.

The revised micro at Punky’s has me chopping jungle next turn and then holding off until Turn 46, when I chop to complete the settler and overflow into the Government Plaza. The third builder charge will be for either an iron mine or I’ll mine the grassland hill SW of the city center. I think I mentioned it before but the settler will be out with the chop on Turn 46, not Turn 51. The Govt Plaza then completes on Turn 51 and the Holy Site around Turn 64. Magnus will get stored at the capital (since there won’t be any builders around yet) and Liang will get slotted at Punky’s and I’ll purchase the initial round of builders out of that city (that’s where the work will be). I’ll shift her over to the east coast city once that’s founded.

Cornflakes, in thinking about the age mechanics and looking at what’s available when I don’t see the appeal of going for a dark Medieval and heroic Renaissance. If anything I think I’d want to try for a golden age in the Medieval, either to continue with Monumentality or switch to something else (because the faith would be going to the navy), then a dark Renaissance for the Letters of Marque dark policy. Since we’re going to be getting 7 era points (Shipbuilding, suzeraining Carthage and the barbarian camp) in the next 5-10 turns we don’t need the era points from a Kampung now and there’s no need for it at Punky’s immediately. We can use the builders from Monumentality to spam the coast with them during expansion.

[suboptimal]

I'm going to send one galley around the northern end of the continent - the other will continue exploring the island/coastal areas to the west. Going around the southern end of the continent would take 12-15 turns just to get to Nan Madol and another 5-6 to get to the coast near Methone and we're only going to see tundra down there. The north-heading one may take just as long to get there but may find something interesting (read: city-states) in that direction, and given the direction of conquest might arrive in time to be useful.

[Cornflakes]

I think you're mixing up east and west in your reports East is right, west is left

I also have to wonder if the cash register was him meeting Carthage, not Nan Madol.

This is the 4th cash register for Woden that you have mentioned. If we are the only 2 occupants of this continent then he should have met all 4 of our combined city states now. Given his new city near Carthage and his other city NE of Nan Madol I think it's reasonable to assume we're on the duel continent. I think the first levy was 100% the right decision to make contact with Macedon 20 turns earlier than we otherwise would have, and be able to respond accordingly. Otherwise we quite possibly could have been met out of the fog by a Macedonian mounted invasion sweeping across our newly-settled-and-improved-through-Monumentality empire.

I skimmed over TheArchduke's PBEM 6 this morning. Macedon is a scary neighbor if they have time to get a GG. I'm more and more liking the plan for double rented army. You will need to take care that Woden doesn't take Amani himself and negate your Suzerainty. Completing the Carthage quest (Archer?) and Nan Madol's Classical quest should make your hold relatively safe at 4 envoys in each. The question in my head now is: "are you being too passive with settler and district builds given the definite war ASAP plan vs Macedon?" On the one hand your cities are a 20 turn march through all that rough terrain. With no way to build Horsemen it's hard to see how additional military can aid in the attack. Cross our fingers that the levied military will be sufficient. Maybe at least send your southern warrior along as a rear guard and last-minute reinforcement? Upgrading to Swords ASAP will be essential so I think your next settler has to find Iron if it's not already within your borders. I would even bring IW over the 60% mark so mining the resource completes the tech if that saves you a turn on the upgrades. Probably want Masonry after IW to unlock Rams (chop one at captured city with Monumentality-purchased builder).

Cornflakes, in thinking about the age mechanics and looking at what’s available when I don’t see the appeal of going for a dark Medieval and heroic Renaissance. If anything I think I’d want to try for a golden age in the Medieval, either to continue with Monumentality or switch to something else (because the faith would be going to the navy), then a dark Renaissance for the Letters of Marque dark policy. Since we’re going to be getting 7 era points (Shipbuilding, suzeraining Carthage and the barbarian camp) in the next 5-10 turns we don’t need the era points from a Kampung now and there’s no need for it at Punky’s immediately. We can use the builders from Monumentality to spam the coast with them during expansion.

I like it I'm surprised at how easily you achieved the golden age. If you're getting +7 over the next 10 turns then you didn't even need first Classical tech OR the extra point from first ship in the world. Out of curiosity, how many era points does Woden have? Is it possible he is going for Classical dark age? That would alleviate some of the loyalty pressure in newly captured cities but probably isn't likely. How does loyalty work anyway in newly captured cities? Do they flip back to the original owner or do they flip free? If they flip free it's not the worst outcome (could they be recaptured without occupation at that point??). You can still press the attack forward and eliminate Macedon and then come back to re-conquer the free city.

[suboptimal]

East vs. west -- maybe, maybe not. I think I got the Turn 40 report directions correct even without the coffee, though do admit that whenever I'm typing about Nan Madol I usually type "west" and then change it back to "east". Dunno why I've got that tic....

As of Turn 38 (the last I looked at the GP screen) no one was generating any GP points yet. I'll keep an eye on that but we're probably 5-10 turns out before any GG points show up.

Regarding being passive with the builds...it's a concern but as you point out we're far enough away where we could get a defense built up if the rentals go pear-shaped. Likewise there'd be enough time to get Masonry completed and chop in some walls - Hetaroi would make a mess of the place but a ram would take forever to get to Punky's (10 turns from Carthage). The southern warrior can plug the gap north of Nan Madol if we don't need to send a settler cross-country - there is a barbarian scout in attack mode around that we need to be mindful of.

Going meta for a second it's generally been the approach over the last several game to make sure that all players had access to iron within a reasonable distance of their start position. The only locations easily accessible are the hills NE of the capital (the grass hill SW of the dyes is the next tile the city is grabbing). After that it's going to be out in the desert or the hills off between the desert and river city locations. We find out in two turns.

I agree that we'll need to get another envoy at each city-state to secure suzerainty as he could use Amani and a quest envoy to take one away from us. It'll take a few turns to get to Archery (4 turns at current science rate) but it's doable. Just a matter of fitting it and Iron Working in together.

Regarding era points I think everyone is gunning for a dark Classical. Woden & Archduke are currently at 8, Rowain is at 7 and Alhazard is at 3. We'll have 27 by the time the Classical hits. If I remove era points to normalize the scores, Woden & us are tied at 35, Rowain is at 34, Archduke at 30 and Alhazard at 29.

[suboptimal]

Regarding district/settler vs. military builds, the estimated completion times for the settlers & districts are:

Settler @ Punky's: during Turn 46 (jungle chop)
Holy Site @ Sound: EoT 46
Govt Plaza (est cost 54) @ Punky's: EoT52
Settler @ Sound: EoT57

The Holy Site at Punky's will be placed next turn (T41) with a cost of 88. We can postpone that, slot Agoge by Turn 53 and get 2 archers or 4 slingers or some combination (depending on Archery finishing) by EoT66. At the capital we can likewise get out the same amount of units in the same time frame (by EoT66) once the settler is done. If we don't go for Iron Working one of the cities can do warriors while the other does ranged units. That should relieve some of the "have no backline military" pressure.

The tech priority, not including Iron Working, is Archery -> Pottery -> Writing to get Carthage's quest out of the way and be able to place a Campus.

[shallow_thought]

Quietlyt rooting for your vengeance on Macedonia.

[suboptimal]

Thanks! I'm just glad it's not Archduke that's next door. Otherwise I'd still be in the closet.

[suboptimal]

Before I get around to T41, here's the screenshot of the north that should have been with the Turn 40 report:




Woden is quite close to Carthage, making the rent-a-dagger plan there definitely doable.

[suboptimal]

Turn 41

Early Empire is done. Shipbuilding it thisclose to completing. The galley was attacked by the quadrireme. Woden’s warrior at Carthage has disappeared back into the fog. Menthone has grabbed the sugar tile.

Time for some empire management. Sugar swaps back to the capital, which stops working the pearls and starts working the sugar. I’ll start working the pearls again once the capital expands in population in 5 turns. The warrior is complete so I start building the Holy Site, that’s due in 6 turns.

Up at Punky’s the loss of the sugar causes the population growth to slow. I was looking at food problems in the intermediate term but the city will grab the fish in 3 turns and that’s enough to support the fourth population that’s getting chopped in a few paragraphs from now.

With Early Empire complete it’s time for a civics swap. Maritime Industries & Urban Planning are out, Discipline & Colonization are in. Craftsmanship will take 2 turns but I’m curious to see what impact the discount has when Shipbuilding completes next turn. I appoint Amani and assign her to Carthage.

Management complete, it’s time for the units. In the sea I move the injured galley one to the east. That clears the path for the other galley to strike for 46 damage. The injured galley goes in for the kill but is redlined at 24 health. This one will go north with a stop in Punky’s to heal for a couple of turns, I think. Warrior moves to genius cows and will start swimming the channel next turn. I intend on landing on the forested hill and then attacking the camp from there. In the east the warrior tops the hill and finds nothing but tundra.

Up at Carthage I move onto the plains hill directly north of the city. I’ll sit here and heal up for a bit starting next turn while Amani establishes. I can’t see over the next hill so can’t spot Woden’s warrior but do find another stone. At Methone I get up on the hill for a look-see:




He’s taken God of the Open Sky as his pantheon. That’s a bit of a puzzling choice but he may have lots of cattle in the fog. The borders to the northwest are Alexandria, so I assume that his capital is somewhere past there to the northeast. Methone is in a somewhat good spot – I can go around the river source and attack from the east as it’s not a coastal city. Cornflakes, for your reference the rest of the Nan Madol forces will not reach Methone until Turn 51 or Turn 52 with a war declaration on Turn 49 unless we do it earlier due to opportunity. they will be there between Turn 48 and 50 going by sea and approach from the east.

I move the rest of the Nan Madol forces up and around and now realize what happened to the builder – its last charge was spent on putting a camp on the deer.

At Punky’s the slinger moves towards the city center and will arrive next turn. The builder chops the jungle for is going to sit tight for two turns while I wait for Bronze Working to complete. The Holy Site’s cost is going to go up to 97 but oh well.

In other news, Archduke has been busy over in Scotland….




Scores and relative positions amongst the players are unchanged from last turn.