[SPOILER] - Suboptimal finds trees, still seeks forest

[suboptimal]

Turn 35

Spud guns are out at both cities. Pindicator’s scout has reappeared out of the fog on the desert between the turtles and diamonds. It can’t see any of the archers and they’ll all (or mostly all) be out of the way this turn. The one at Mashed heads northeast – I’m going to move directly to the coastal GFH and then continue up the coast until I find some flat terrain. The two at Dauphinoise both move southeast. Builder returns to the city en route to the bananas, that plantation will be down in two more turns. Over by Mount Semeru the Nazca warrior remains fortified so the archer gets to be the first through the gap. I had thought that marsh, for some reason, cost 3MP instead of 2 so I get an unexpected tile of movement and finish up just west of the salt. That archer will be at the stub river next turn and should completely defog it. The coastal archer moves to the jungle hill, revealing not much but open ocean to the east.

The warrior in the south moves west to reveal a mountain pass:




Note that Conquest of Paradise is down to 3 population. Pindicator has a settler out and I’ll be curious to see where borders pop up. I don’t know if he has an available escort unit so he might be heading southeast along the capital’s river. We’ll find out when he plants in a few turns. The good news is that it wasn’t a military build.

Mashed starts an archer and moves the citizen working the GFH back to the turtles. The archer will be out in three turns. Dauphinoise starts its warrior, that will also be done in three turns.

Kaiser has gained two empire points, we’ll see if that’s a district next turn. Pindicator has completed his fourth tech but hasn’t advanced past the second column on the tech tree (so it’s not Bronze Working). In addition to the Khmer conquest the focus is now on finding two more city-states for the Political Philosophy boost.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

Settler is great news for us, maybe the best thing pindi could have been building.

There's no way the city can contribute to his defense by the time you have archers all up in Wealth of Nations in ~10 turns, and once we hold his second city I feel very confident about our ability to press on and seize Conquest of Paradise. From there you can consolidate and prepare to dominate the continent.

[suboptimal]

Hopefully the terrain north of Wealth of Nations is a bit open and we can be there in 8. I'll start the city attack once I can get three archers in position on the tiles north of the city since the fourth one will be right behind them (literally).

Tactical question - if we happen upon one or more of his slingers on the way there should we declare early and take the units out? Depending on the terrain the archers could advance towards the city and shoot on the way by. Two shots would be sufficient to kill either a slinger or do > 90 points of damage (and possibly kill) a non-Tortoise warrior.

[Banzailizard]

Yes you should. If he sees 4 archers coming he will know what you are going to do. At that point he will switch to military production. Better to deny him an extra unit.

[suboptimal]

Yeah, that's what I figured. The archers are pretty much advancing as two groups of two, with the second group two turns behind the first. If the first group meets a unit and can kill it on the same turn I'll declare then. Otherwise I'll try to maneuver to keep one archer out of sight until the following turn, at which point I'll declare and kill. Better if he doesn't even see the second group coming.

[suboptimal]

Turn 36

Quite a bit going on this turn as we get to place our first district and see some new sights on the map...

Writing is complete; start Mining. I can’t place the Campus where I want because Mining isn’t complete and there’s a forest in the way. Whoops. That’ll raise the cost of the district to 88 (from 83). I move the citizen off the PFH and put it on the GFH – that speeds up city growth by a turn but keeps the archer at two turns. The city is now working the horses, rice, deer, turtles and GFH. The city has also picked up the stone and will next grab the grassland hill adjacent to the fish in the north. Down at Dauphinoise the archer in the city and the builder move to the bananas. I’ll plantation then move the archer SE next turn. The other archer moves to the plains on the coast. Pindicator’s scout has moved NE into the floodplain between the two cities and so far has only seen the archer that was in the city center at Dauphinoise. That’s fine, there will be another archer out at Mashed at the end of next turn to keep an eye on it (and perhaps kill it later). Now for some new stuff.

Northern archer gets out to the coast:




Oh look, ruffians! The two tiles north of the warrior are both coastal. The tile to the east is fresh water and a river can just be seen heading north along the edge of the fog. I’ll kill the warrior before progressing further, but will head for the wheat once the path is clear. In the south the lead archers moves to the stub river:




The city marker is on a jungle hill. Going around the river is not a nice open path and neither is anything on the other side. I’m going to send the archer across the river – it’s the same amount of time whether I go across or around. I’ll pick my path to Wealth of Nations based on what I find once I’m across. I might also shift that city marker to the hill on the inside bend of the river and settle there before the city further up the coast. At Wealth of Nations Pindicator’s slinger is following my warrior as it leaves his territory. I enter the mountain pass, see a mountain and then breathe a sigh of relief:




Almost boxed in. I’ll head for the sheep and hope there’s not a slinger on the other side. Of course, if there is one I’ll need to shoot my way through it in a few turns. The sheep are not fresh water.

Kaiser’s empire score growth last turn was population as he’s not generating any GPP yet. TBS finished his fourth tech; we’re the first to five.

Hit end turn and hear the city-state cash register. Hopefully that’s for me and not Pindicator but I won’t keep my hopes up.

[suboptimal]

Turn 37

Foreign Trade has completed, start Early Empire, no policy changes to be made. I expected a notification that the northern archer had been attacked. Oddly, the barbarian warrior fortified in place despite having no damage. That’s….odd. I shoot it for 46 points of damage and 5 XP. Builder at Dauphinoise puts down a plantation. We’re up to 6.3 per turn; pretty good for not having any monuments up yet! The archers near the city continue southwards.

Down at the Atbarah River the lead archer crosses:




I move the city marker there. The hill to the SW would be a +3 Campus and though the rice and bananas are second ring tiles I think the coastal location is the strongest. The trailing archer moves to the plains and will stay on the western side of the river as the path southwards is quicker (1MP on the geothermal vent, 2 for the jungle). The lead archer will move to the jungle hill next turn. Down near Khmer:




Pindicator settled right in the floodplain. That’s a strong city location but also a sitting duck. Provided things go according to plan that city will be the last to be taken. I do say I like his lands. Also note that his slinger is continuing to follow the warrior. I think I may move to the sheep and fortify-heal for two turns and see if it keeps the slinger in place. The alternative is to continue up the coast and try to drag the slinger into the archer advance. I kill the scout and take 13 damage in the process. There’s a GFH to the NE of the sheep but I can’t tell what’s east of the sheep yet. However, it does appear to be a non-mountain tile. Wealth of Nations has also culturally expanded to the tile adjacent to both diamonds. I assume there’s a resource there or it’s a 4- yield tile for that to have occurred.

In addition to Pindicator, Alhambram has settled a third city. Kaiser has a settler out. Pindicator also cleared that barbarian camp that was just south of the Nubian Desert.

It looks like we’ll be declaring war around Turn 44 or 45. If we drag the slinger into the archers we might start earlier. Would it be worth holding the lead pair here until the second pair catches up in two turns?

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

Would it be worth holding the lead pair here until the second pair catches up in two turns?

That depends - do you think the gain in strength from 2 more archers is worth delaying two turns? What could pin accomplish with two extra turns to prepare?

Personally, with a strength 10 city and nothing stronger than archers around, I'd be inclined to push with the initial wave at the first city, hoping to take it quickly before he can get reinforcements up. Consolidate there until the other two archers come up, then push south for the capital. Speed is what matters most - given time he could put together a pretty stout defense to bog you down, but once the capital falls it's all over. The new city has only 3 production/turn so it'll take ages to contribute anything, while you can kick out archers like nobody's business and then just mop up with a warrior, or, hell, even a scout in an emergency (all your melee units get killed and you need to whip out something quick to capture). 

From a metagame perspective, pin can sometimes collapse quickly under pressure (PBEM11) and I think is more invested in his Civ IV pitboss, so the sooner you deal him a strong psychological blow, the better.

[suboptimal]

Would it be worth holding the lead pair here until the second pair catches up in two turns?

That depends - do you think the gain in strength from 2 more archers is worth delaying two turns? What could pin accomplish with two extra turns to prepare?

Personally, with a strength 10 city and nothing stronger than archers around, I'd be inclined to push with the initial wave at the first city, hoping to take it quickly before he can get reinforcements up. Consolidate there until the other two archers come up, then push south for the capital. Speed is what matters most - given time he could put together a pretty stout defense to bog you down, but once the capital falls it's all over. The new city has only 3 production/turn so it'll take ages to contribute anything, while you can kick out archers like nobody's business and then just mop up with a warrior, or, hell, even a scout in an emergency (all your melee units get killed and you need to whip out something quick to capture). 

From a metagame perspective, pin can sometimes collapse quickly under pressure (PBEM11) and I think is more invested in his Civ IV pitboss, so the sooner you deal him a strong psychological blow, the better.

Yeah, I remember dedlurking PBEM 11 when he pretty much went on tilt when the strategy I used in PBEM 10 turned into a 2v1 against.  You're right in that if he loses a city this early in the game he might collapse. 

Two archers can do quite a bit of damage to a strength 10 city even with the -17 malus (about 70 the first turn before garrison healing) and I might be able to take it out in three turns if the slingers don't cause too much trouble.  They can shoot from the area north of the grassland so that he'd either have to exit the city or build/upgrade an archer to counterattack.  Perhaps I'll heal-fortify the warrior on the sheep for a couple of turns.  The rough terrain means if the warrior stays on the move the slinger can't pursue and shoot.  The lead pair could start the city attack on Turn 41 or 42 depending on what's they find.  I'll keep the archers on the eastern side of the river until they get closer to the city.  There's a possibility that the river flows out of Lake Tonle Sap, in which case I may have to cross earlier - I'd want to be able to move, declare and shoot all on the same turn if possible.

Edit: I rechecked the distances in the EoT save. Unless there's some flat land to allow repositioning into a side-by-side formation the lead archer would be in range of the city on T42 and the trailer on T43. [/i]

[Banzailizard]

I agree that speed is of the essence right now. Your military score is going up fast. Pin is bound to be suspicious soon, so hit him now before he can get units out.