(June 25th, 2022, 09:51)Hitru Wrote: You have traits and shrine to keep your eco going in late middle game and further. You just need to make sure you have enough land to make use of. I think you are still in ok position without having any actual knowledge on how your opponents are doing.
Do you have any change landing also Judaism for extra shrine?
There might be a chance, but it's already painful to get out one prophet, and if we manage a second I'd rather bulb theology for AP... Also I'm trying to not get distracted too much from Currency. All trade routes will be intercontinental. And then it will be high time for MC, assuming we get the silver especially.
Situation in the north is stable for the moment I think. Meanwhile down south:
With one turn of fortification, that barb will have 11% chance to kill the sole Quechua responsible for the security of this colony (and force an axe whip). I'm not going to risk the worker on it - another turn lost on a cottage on the river, but just that. Assuming our boy holds I might try to pull of founding a second city on the landmass before the axe isup (would follow the turn after). Leipzig makes 10fh/turn and will get a chop for a t72 settler whip
God it's so damn slow... And there are no other settlers even planned for atm. We need one for the corn dot, and I don't know where to even start for that one... maybe Meißen, much slowly. On the northern landmass we will be able to expand only by the axe, unless Ari contents himself with just razing Shangian.
With that, I regret not having researched AH before Writing. Maybe I should just swap to that, but now also Maths is near for some much needed increase in hammer potential. We'll get the cow into borders soon, but if Ari keeps his axes around it will be hard to improve (and ultimately he'll get it anyways).
He saw the retreating axe, but can't look into the city. On the galley I'm keeping a quechua for an upgrade if necessary, and the axe in Chemnitz is whippable next turn. One from the capital is a few turns away (next turn whip worker, axe comes the turn after, boards t71 and can unload 72). So we should be safe, even if it costs us.
With 1-pop to whip, stationed axe, city on a hill and at least 2 turns of warning trying to attack with less than 4 axes is foolish. Unless he can surprise you with chariots
Completed: pb38, pb40, pb41, pb42, pb46 and pb49
Playing: pbem78
So both green leaders saw that evident No Trespassing tundraicepeaks line and thought it funny to get themselves a city right into our faces. What do? Again, patience is the way, if there even is one.
Ari's aquisition is more into our face than nauf's, however naufragar has the silver and he's on our sea. Probably we'll have to wait and see if conflict breaks out between the two of them, and side with one. Getting some chariots up would not come amiss anyways. The question is, should we research AH before or after maths? Would feel pretty stupid right after finishing Writing, but that's just spilled milk and should not be a factor.
I mean, if Ari doesn't send a spear soon, 2 chariots from the capital and one conveniently whipped in Chemnitz with overflow for the next one, ideally combined with a timely road disguised as a chop could work. Big question though is wether we have horses. If we're lucky there are some right by Chemnitz, as copper was on the other overseas landmass in a similar spot. Anyways, I put the Writing OF into AH and will turn up research next turn if there are no objections.
(June 27th, 2022, 11:20)Hitru Wrote: With 1-pop to whip, stationed axe, city on a hill and at least 2 turns of warning trying to attack with less than 4 axes is foolish. Unless he can surprise you with chariots
For chariots I have an upgradable Quechua (suboptimal, sure). But mind that he's Monty. One of those axes has shock already, the other one should have got it from killing the warrior? (C1 axe vs fortified warrior on a hill and in a city, does that give 2XP on attack?)
That's right, Ari conquered yet another barb city . With 7 he's the game leader now, by my PBspy accounts. That's right, our one neighbour is the guy with the most cities and Agg, the other one has Fast Workers and oracled CoL while also staying ahead of us in city count, and the third one is a self proclaimed axe enthusiast.
The one good thing that might come out of this I suppose is Ari going bankrupt with lots of cities and no economy trait to help (I think he had no Writing yet when we researched it).
For now I accepted OB. He would be able to look into Chemnitz anyways (with his barely scratched C2 shock axe...), and maybe this builds trust?
Meanwhile an offer goes out to naufragar:
The corn is obscure, it's intended to mean Aztecs. But anyways, Ari is our only common contact, surely he can figure it out. Note that nauf is still at the same embarassing 4 cities as we are despite Imp. That should enhance the motivation for an alliance. If naufragar goes after us, Ari will just take the spoils, which is also likely if Ari fights us one after another. Am I mad at nauf's silver city in our designated territory? Absolutely, but the Aztec behemoth is the immediate problem.
The likely way to deal with him is not really immediate though. The best way to overcome the axe advantage and bring our own strengths in play seems to be Maths->Currency->MC->IW->Machinery->Masonry+Construction and wreck his elite axes with crossbows - so some way to go (or rather immediate construction?). The alternative would be HBR+archery, but I'm hesitant to go there before Currency, and ultimately Agg spears negate horchers rather easily, considering his hammer potential is vastly superior.
Turn 70 and we whip our second worker !
Down south:
With the chop the settler will be whippable in 2 turns and after just two turns of dumping food into him. The plan is to found the city with just the Quechua as cover, but the queued axe will be immediately trailing, and reinforcements will also come from Meißen on the island where we finished the galley first.
Meißen btw got its third ring by virtue of holy city, and we see something we didn't see before:
Ottoman borders - is that his starting island, or a second overseas colony of naufragar's? Well anyways, it continues to demonstrate how insane astronomy is on this map. And nauf is Phi, lovely, isn't it? But anyways, let's just get as far so as to worry about that kind of problems in the first place.
Need to catch up on reports. Caution, this is not a happy post.
T71 we find another neighbour:
GT/Empirate with Genghis Khan. Empirate is quite competent; GT's builder skills have been lacking in previous games, but he is a tenacious and active defender who might raze a city or three even he's down already. This team might complement each other really well. I hope they are more of a counterweight to Plemo than a threat to us.
Two turns later:
But Miguelito what the hell are you doing? Either it was a wholly unconscious misclick or another server fluke, but the galley started the turn with a goto order to the east. Messes up the sending of reinforcements and the new worker from Meißen, but so what (well, it would be a shame if Plemo attacks our new settlement right away, but I don't think he will).
With two neighbours in the north and two in the south known, I think it is fair to say that this game we just drew the short straw in the neighbour lottery, after having done fairly well in our previous two games.
In the north there is Ari who has more cities than anybody else and Agg to make him unassailable for the moment. What's more, he is a serious threat to Chemnitz. There is also naufragar who is seriously underexpanded considering he's Imp, but has found the energy to settle up on us. We have no more room for further cities beyond the one we got down.
In the south there is Plemo whom I've tlaked about at length, and another competent neighbour.
So at this point I think we're not really competing for the win here. That's ok, but what are our goals then?
not dying - of course that's always the goal, but it has to be taken extra considering the threats north and south.
expand anyways - I think it has to be through Ari
get a monk economy running and enjoy
1. and 2. are of course part of the basic winning strategy, they're just extra hard to the point of unlikely here.
So why Ari? naufragar returned my copper/copper corn. I don't think attacking him would be profitable - Ari could then just take all of the island(?) after us weakening each other. Against Ari we may have a chance through tech superiority if he breaks his economy by amassing too many unprofitable cities. And Shangian, the one bordering us, must be quite expensive with how close it is to us. It also is compleltely intolerable for us to have that city on our doorstep short, medium and long term.
Case in point:
The hope is that this worker is just chopping, but if it's a road a chariot or three on the ice can hit us from the fog. The spear can and will be whipped in two turns, but if he goes at it right away it will be too late. The alternative would be to upgrade the Quechua, but I'm not there yet mentally Might reconsider next turn; the road can't finish before t75 (fake edit: I went in and changed the city to work double plains forests so we can whip next turn. Ouch). The situation here is really really depressing. See that horse, our only one? Yeah it's near possible to improve because Ari sits on the forest with a fucking C2 shock axe, and has another in the city. I could cover with four axes and he'd just pick them one by one. Maybe after borders pop, if he allows it .
I can hardly feel like this is our fault. Even with a more efficient BW start I can imagine at most being able to raze that barb city in time, if we beelined for it dedicatedly, but why would we?
My faint hope is for something with crossbows to work, but honestly... maybe if we go together with naufragar. But it's also quite likely that he just throws us off that landmass within the next 5, 10 or 20 turns.
We can celebrate what I hope is the first village on the map:
Problem is, after those two our 3rd cottage was finished just this turn . The other hamlet will take a while longer, as I can't work it continuously.
We had Plemo's graphs for a turn. I haven't looked at them too closely. CY is atrocious of course. Power might be very bad news, but I'lll just hope that it's insurance against the Mongols to the east, or something on his other border. At least so far nothing in sight, and we'll get our first axe on that landmass in... uh, a few turns, maybe even next.
Here's the dump:
I really should have finished the axe a turn earlier, but I was greedy and worked the cottage. Plemo offered OB, which I accepted of course. With a peacetime double move I would be able to get the axe in in time, but I can't reliably play after turn roll and Plemo is usually very quick to play. If he declares I'd have to upgrade the Quechua. Note also that my galley misclick further complicates reinforcements. Well let's just hope that he walks in with OB.
I suppose Ari chopped the monument. Our terrace gets chopped next turn and whipped the turn after, so we'll still get his first ring for a while, but later than I'd have hoped for. And that's just to improve the horse . Or we can cover the horse with... 4? axes while improving it, that should make it at least risky for him to assault us. Argh.
We have no trade connection yet and anyways, would you trust Monty ?
Also I want horses to wreck his face with chariots, so no fish love from me . But well the surprise might be spoiled slightly . Ideally I'd just get horses from nauf, that would be more stealthy - but he has none connected (or is trading them), and inexplicably his Suleiman is still sitting at 4 cities. No idea what's up with that, PBspy has not shown cities lost, and F4 tells me he has not had war with Ari.
I mean you might just have to build enough axes to force him off. If nothing else you could then get a peace treaty which would allow you to pasture the horse. I don't think letting him consolidate there is wise.
And there are no other settlers even planned for atm. We need one for the corn dot, and I don't know where to even start for that one... maybe Meißen, much slowly. On the northern landmass we will be able to expand only by the axe, unless Ari contents himself with just razing Shangian. 
!
. The other hamlet will take a while longer, as I can't work it continuously.
?
. But well the surprise might be spoiled slightly 
. Ideally I'd just get horses from nauf, that would be more stealthy - but he has none connected (or is trading them), and inexplicably his Suleiman is still sitting at 4 cities. No idea what's up with that, PBspy has not shown cities lost, and F4 tells me he has not had war with Ari. 