Suboptimal IV: Indonesian Insanity

[Cornflakes]

Beware of moving the Methone warrior into a position where it can be hit by 2 Macedonian units. You know the warrior is somewhere to your west. What is Woden's actual strength (not CQUI reported)? Also what is your own actual strength?

[suboptimal]

Yeah, I'm keeping an eye on that. I'm going to defog the area around Methone so I know the approach to take from the shoreline. The forest to the east of the warrior is on a hill.

Woden's Civ-reported strength is 51. Ours is 139 but was at 152 before the galley got attacked and doesn't include the just-built warrior. We've currently got 6 warriors, 1 slinger and 2 galleys so our milpower at full strength is 175. When we levy Carthage it'll go up another 4 points but I'm hoping they build another warrior in the next few turns.

I may consider putting Masonry ahead of the Pottery -> Writing techs, if only to be able to buy a ram in case walls go in at the capital.

Another potential issue would be if he garrisons a warrior in a city that we're attacking with only three warriors. We'd need to get first strike with all three or bring a fourth to get the job done. Do you think it'd be worth bringing the initial western warrior towards Alexandria to defog as the Carthaginians advance, then attack that city with four warriors to draw his troops in that direction? The other two could sit offshore for a bit and then meet the main force at either the capital or Methone in a pincer move. Unless the Carthaginian troops are scattered to the west when we levy it should take 5-6 turns to reach Alexandria from the SW.

[suboptimal]

Turn 42

Shipbuilding is in and we’ve reached the Classical Age, at least as far as the tech trees are concerned. We got one era point, which means that someone else reached the Classical Age before us (Archduke, most likely). Craftsmanship is at one turn to completion. The discounts have not kicked in on either tree, so I assume that means the “age” that determines discounts is the World Age, not the player’s age. That’ll slow things down a bit. Start Bronze Working.

In the east the galleys split up, with the more injured one heading north into Punky’s territory. I’ll stay here for a turn or two to heal before continuing north. The other galley heads to the river mouth and…




They want us to build an Entertainment Complex. We get the first meet envoy for +2. There are some decisions to be made about settling. The forested hill captures all of the Yosemite tiles but is a poor location otherwise. The marsh might be OK as that puts the crabs and sugar second ring and remains coastal. We have time to ponder, though. I finish off movement here by embarking the warrior. It will go clean up that barbarian camp.

In the mid-east the warrior moves down into the tundra to defog and doesn’t find anything interesting. Nan Madol has built anotherwarrior.

Up at Methone, Woden has garrisoned the slinger in the city. The primary view shows now Granary or Monument and the strategic view shows no hammer on the city. The warrior goes east onto the forested hill to reveal the complete first ring:




No districts yet. I guess the hammer icon on the strategic view is no longer reliable, because the city has got to be building something. From the shape of the northern borders it appears that the capital is due north of Methone. Warriors at Nan Madol move to the coast and will embark next turn. I am encouraged by the flat ground to the east. Cornflakes, do we want to try to take this city with three warriors or leave the two off the coast and go after Alexandria with four? I think part of the answer comes down to whether or not we’re willing to lose a warrior on a potential suicide attack at Methone.

Up at Carthage I fortify the warrior to heal. Slinger moves into Punky’s and movement is complete.

I checked the tech and civics trees. Woden is currently in the Bronze Working/Masonry/Wheel column, I’ll assume he has Bronze Working. Civics-wise he has not advanced past the Craftsmanship/Foreign Trade column, I’m assuming he’s working on Foreign Trade now. He’s fallen to last place in military at 51 indicated by Civ. We’re at 149.

[Cornflakes]

How soon can your own warrior currently near Carthage reach Methone? That warrior has a queued promotion, right? If that is the case then keep moving it east such that it arrives at Methone with the others. At 60 HP it can withstand an attack before promoting back to full health. If timing works out for even another turn of healing then even better. Even a turn or two later to arrive will be sufficient to aid the attack. I don’t at all mind sacrificing a levee to capture the city.

I think at this point that either city can be a target, whichever you can certainly capture. Gaining a foothold is essential as a base for upgrading, as well as Monumentality builder purchase to chop out military. I doubt you will have 2 iron so probably archers, at 1.5 archers per chop with Agoge + Magnus established (which you will do for Loyalty anyway). Methone has 3 guaranteed forests including the Dyes. It 100% makes sense to chop the Dyes forest to press the attack.

I’d guess Methone is currently building a military unit, probably a Warrior. Thinking through this more, Methone has a couple advantages as our point of attack: 1, you already know a good deal more of the terrain. 2, your current warrior can stick around to disrupt chopping (of military and walls). 3, you can bring a larger total number of attackers to bear in a shorter timeframe. 4, your Nan Madol levies expire first, so they can be sacrificed if necessary against Methone first with the Carthage levies arriving on scene afterwards to clean up and then upgrade. 5, Your current Nan Madol levies will be just about ready to launch the invasion when Amani establishes. Levying the 2nd army will surely trigger emergency measures front woden, so the quicker the invasion begins after that point the better.

Don’t spend any more gold over the next few turns. Need to make sure we can afford the Carthage levy. Last thing we want is for Carthage to crank out too many units that we can’t afford the levy. Did the price stay the same after you entered the Classical era?

I’m surprised to see the city state to the west. My thought now is that we only started with 2 CS on our starting landmass (1 each for Woden and us), and then each of us have a backlines CS on an island. That is a clever way to do it that I hadn’t considered. In that case we got lucky with first to meet on Carthage + Nan Madol, especially given all the rough terrain our warriors had to slog through.

[Cornflakes]

I suggest no tile buys and no spending gold anywhere except to aid the attack vs. Macedonia. Having committed to the attack, it is essential to carry it to a successful conclusion as quickly as possible. Even if that slowed your development at home you will come out of the war with 3 additional cities and a continent to yourself.

[suboptimal]

I checked my EoT42 save (Turn 43 is waiting for me as I type). The cost to levy Carthage has not gone up - they're still 80 for presumably two warriors. That may go up with world age, so there's a little bit of time. The warrior at Carthage can be at the sugar marsh in 5 turns assuming it's all difficult terrain in the fog. I'm going to send it closer to Alexandria to defog. That won't delay it much, if at all - it would be at the dyes in 6 turns, I'd probably be disembarking right around then. I'll take a new screenshot of Methone next turn for some planning. I am going to send my warrior at Methone to the north - don't want to tip the invasion by defogging east of the city.

I also have no plans for gold spends at this point in time, unless the iron is 3rd ring to an existing city or would be 2nd ring to the new city. I consider that to be a necessary expenditure.

[suboptimal]

Turn 43

Bronze Working and Craftsmanship are both done. Where’s the iron? Why, right next to the capital!




The next closest source is in the desert, over here:




There is no other iron on the map. We can have the iron mined in 7 turns (during Turn 50) . I’m doing the first jungle chop now to keep the Holy Site costs down. Start State Workforce, that’s due in 7 turns but I’ll put some into Military Tradition while the capital’s Holy Site builds. No policy changes this time around. Start Iron Working, that’s listed at 11 turns but I’ll get just enough for the iron mine to complete it and start Masonry. I switch from the GFH to the iron – the extra is good and the loss of 1 per turn doesn’t slow down population growth from the current rate.

Warrior moves down to the barbarian camp and will disembark at the furs next turn to start the attack. I send the galley down that way as well. Galley at Punky’s moves into the city (like I should have done last turn ) to heal there. Builder chops the jungle, increasing the city’s population to 4 and adding 27 to the settler. The tile picker has moved to the pearls, which is not ideal as this is a 1 tile. However, delaying the second jungle chop also solves my intermediate-term food problem. I place the Holy Site with a cost of 97.

Over in the middle east I begin moving the warrior towards the east coast. It’ll embark and catch up with the main force as a backup unit. I won’t need it for settler escort duty as the western warrior can handle that. At Nan Madol the warriors embark.

Up at Carthage I begin advancing the warrior. The move onto the hill fully defogs the path to Mathone:




It’s 5 turns to the dyes from here, moving along the southern edge of Alexandria’s border. Methone has a builder out, I move to the dyes to block the tile and defog a little more.

Checking the various screens, Woden hooked up iron last turn. He’s only got one (and 1-2 warriors) but we need to keep that in mind.

Methone discussion following shortly.

[Cornflakes]

Could you flip me a current save to peek at? I’ll have a little time in the next hour or two to load it up

[suboptimal]

Methone

So, here’s Methone as of EoT43:




The warrior by Carthage is just visible at the left edge of the image.  For future reference it is 59/100 on damage.  Here’s a shot of the east coast from Nan Madol to Methone:




There’s no hammer on strategic view so Methone is building another unit.  Without improvements it has 5 and with Agoge active it could build a warrior in 5-6 turns, without it will take 8. The northern warrior of the embarked pair can reach the coast tile SE of the sheep in three turns.  My thinking for the approach and attack is as follows:

- Warrior currently at Methone harasses the builder until Turn 47, remaining close to the jungle NW of the dyes.
- Warrior at Carthage continues moving east, avoiding the borders with Alexandria to stay hidden from view hopefully).  It will be at the horses three turns from now.
- Warrior pair spends three turns embarked.  On the fourth turn (T47) the warriors disembark, one to the tile E of the rice, the other SE of the sheep.




On Turn 48 the units position themselves at the yellow dots.  On Turn 49 we declare war and the units move per the red lines, with the SE warrior attacking the city immediately.  This puts the city under siege and puts three attackers on the same side of the river as of Turn 49.  There may be a warrior in the way (or garrisoned) if he’s building one but we should be able to kill it in one turn.  Three out of the four warriors are in good defensive positions with only the SE one “exposed”.

Alternatively we can declare war on Turn 48 and have one of the embarked warriors bring up the rear two turns later, as it were.  However, I think the risk of an extra turn to bring 4 warriors to bear vs. having to contend with a warrior is worth the chance.

If he doesn’t move that builder or makes an improvement with it next turn I’m declaring war now and taking it out. 

The EoT43 save is attached.

[Cornflakes]

Keep in mind war declaration will kick you out of Macedonian territory, likely to the SW towards your capital, so you won’t be able to capture the builder next turn even if it stays put. Better I think just to fortify your warrior in place if the builder stays there. If builder moves SE into the city or through the city onto the grassland then move warrior SE onto the GFH. That blocks the tile, and if builder continues adjacent to your warrior then a declaration of war should just kick you 1W onto the only adjacent free tile.

On a similar note, be certain that you formally declare war via the diplo window BEFORE you move in your attack force. Don’t want to be embarrassed with a turn or two delay from getting kicked out of the culture

Could you draw up what a T48 attack would look like? Every turn counts and it might make sense to attack a little prematurely as long as siege status is established to prevent city from healing.