[SPOILERS] Mardoc's Magical Mystery Tour

[Mardoc]

Possibly tomorrow. First priority is to get the 46 map out the door. Already delayed those guys too long.

Short version: Jalepeno's probably going to win this. Not sure how much of that is because he had a better civ for the map, and how much is because I got too distracted to push my snowball properly. Edit: (that is, how much is because he outplayed me) He snatched up the Titan, Bone Palace, and I think the MilStrat GCommander since my last report. I probably could have/should have gotten at least one of those if I'd been more aggressive with my goals.

I'm building Cultists and galleys and saving money to Drown a bunch of warriors, as a last ditch attempt to prevent his win. If I succeed...I'm probably handing the game to Aurorarcher

[Mardoc]

Well, this turn I joined the 'beat on Jalepeno' club. Not very exclusive, it already had at least two members (haven't met Molach so I don't know if he's a member too).

We'll see how it goes, but right now I expect a brief period of success followed by being overwhelmed by numbers. Killed four Lanun units in exchange for a Drown, but I doubt the ratio goes like this for long.

Jalepeno may think he provoked it - he built a Pirate and pillaged one of my nets. But I was going to be invading him regardless - maybe he saw that with his adept or something along those lines. Or maybe with Optics, I didn't hide my units as well as I thought I did?

Well, anyway, here goes.

[Mardoc]

Well, Jalepeno saw through my invisibility somehow. Probably he could spare his meta adept from the front elsewhere - or else has already made it to sorcery. Which means I won't even get one city, most likely.

I'm willing to concede to him whenever the rest of everyone is. It seems vaguely possible that I'm diverting enough attention for someone else to have a chance...but looking at the power graph, that's not likely. Still, I'll keep playing as long as someone has hope.

And...I think Expansive needs to be nerfed, or else the rest of the traits need a buff.

[Bobchillingworth]

Bear in mind that you all selected a script which is incredibly accommodating to the Lanun, and the starting Adept had the potential to supercharge your starts (with water and/or fire mana your capitals are significantly nicer than should normally be expected). Which is to say that this game shouldn't be taken as representative of Expansive's power.

[Mardoc]

Which is to say that this game shouldn't be taken as representative of Expansive's power.

It's more a 'final straw' from my perspective than an argument in itself. But do you consider Donut to be incredibly Lanun friendly? Because this game reminds me of EitB 16 more than most anything else...except from the wrong side, of course.

That said...maybe the real problem is that Lanun and Expansive are so synergistic. Normally the limit on Expansive is that you can't afford all the cities you can build, and can't keep up with workers even if you had the money. Lanun sidestep that by making coastal cities viable with only Fishing tech and no necessary outside support. Even if all you do is grow and work coast, a city will pay for itself; once you get coves and seafood you're looking at profit. Faster if you do have support, but it's not necessary. And you certainly don't have to wait for Code of Laws and a bunch of worker techs to start your snowball.

Falamar is tons of fun to play, and maybe that's the real problem? Take it away, make him Cha/Org (still very water-friendly, but not quite as ridiculous), maybe that would bring him closer to the pack?

[Bobchillingworth]

That's true, 16 wasn't particularly geared for the Lanun. IIRC though that map featured tons of open & high-quality land for each player, so the expansive leader of course had a major advantage while normally excellent traits like Raiders would have been largely unused. The really large highland map where Rhoanna won was the same way, I think.



But you've got a point that the Lanun have a lot of synergy with the trait. Maybe too much, I don't know. I probably should have recommended you ban them for this map after I saw how much water the requested settings spat out- really, it's not just the amount of water, but the fact that one can make a perfectly reasonable empire where well over half their cities are coastal.

[Mardoc]

I probably should have recommended you ban them for this map after I saw how much water the requested settings spat out- really, it's not just the amount of water, but the fact that one can make a perfectly reasonable empire where well over half their cities are coastal.

Well, I pretty much knew what I was getting into.

Map:

Sample torusland with auror's requested settings:


Most city sites coastal? Most coasts jagged? 200 tiles per player, with contacts through defensible chokes or the sea? I think I want Falamar!

Again?

Well, if it works...

That said, I have been thinking about alternatives. It's not quite a Falamar-auto win game like I initially thought.

Went with non-Lanun mostly because I was looking for novelty. If I had been closer to Jalepeno earlier (or made that more of a priority), so that early Drown harass worked, I might have been able to abort his snowball successfully. If I was really clever, I could have used him as Wane-fodder when the barbs ran out to simultaneously boost myself and put a brake on him.

Well, and on top, this definitely has not been one of my best played games, while if Jalepeno's made mistakes, I haven't seen them. I feel like there was a point where I was in the driver's seat, but I coasted instead of accelerating.

[Qgqqqqq]

I also view EXP as the most powerful trait, and the Lanun are certainly in a strong position, so I'm happy to look at nerfing either.