OSG-28

[haphazard1]

Mentar would not be the only planet constructing ships, just the most effective/efficient due to the Rich status. Sorry if I was unclear.

So how do we resolve our dilemma? Attack the bears? Attack the shifters? Spy on the bears? Sit tight and tech? (This last seems ill-advised.) We need to choose some course of action and then try to execute on it.

[Ianus]

I think that unless we can crash build enough of a fleet to overpower the Darloks, and it sounds like it will take SIGNIFICANT production to crack even a single Darlok colony (excepting the UP world which doesn't count for much of anything) we need to crank out a fleet of ~200 bombers plus some support ships and take it to the Bulrathi. That is certainly something we can accomplish with our current colonies but will take some work. Bear in mind that we need not only an offensive fleet of dreadnaughts and bombers but also colony ships and at least one defensive ship to leave in orbit of each refounded colony. Expect EVERYONE to send a freaking colony ship the turn after a planet is bombed out (not that I'm bitter or anything). That's a significant fleet and can't be done instantly.
Regarding missiles: anything up to Merculites can be dodged when closing on a planet provided you can get there in two turns. Pro tip: ALWAYS pilot bombers to the top of the screen. I posted on this once upon a time and I still have the screenshots. I'll try to repost my examples here when I have the time. Anyway I'm confident that as long as we have enough bombs to clear out the bases within two rounds of bombing that we won't suffer attrition from bases. Then it just becomes a matter of dealing with Bulrathi ships. I'd say we can do that without too much fuss. Let's go get em!

[shallow_thought]

Thanks for the info about your calculations RefSteel. I actually was trying to put together a spreadsheet, but realised I just didn't know enough.

I think the question of who to attack may come down to diplo. Our strategic risks here are:
- we are successfully attacked by an AI who can hurt us
- an AI runs away with production and tech
- an AI wins the vote

I get the impression that the third is the greatest risk (our defenses seem decent and we still have NAP with our more dangerous neighbour I think, no-one seems to be out there conquering the rest of the galaxy). I'd need to see more up-to-date diplo information (and remind myself of the date, i.e. how long before the next vote) to be sure, but attacking the bears seems the slower but safer path to victory. I'd be wrong if it simply let the Darloks run away with tech or greviously backstab us of course, but I'd be worried that attacking the shifers could produce a galactic alliance against us and would vote the bears in.

Also, attacking the bears seems to be tactically easier. If I end up with 150+ medium bombers (or equivalent capability in large bombers) and some defense ships for backup part way through my turnset, I'd be happy to give that a go...

As an aside, I've got a family birthday party and some other stuff this weekend, so it may take me a little while to play and report (DaveV hasn't actually finished yet, right? I've not missed a posted save in all the discussion?).

[DaveV]

(DaveV hasn't actually finished yet, right? I've not missed a posted save in all the discussion?).

No, not yet.

[RefSteel]

Good points, Ianus - and you're right that our Doom Drives can dodge anything slower than Stingers even without using the Wait button if "piloted" correctly!

I'd need to see more up-to-date diplo information (and remind myself of the date, i.e. how long before the next vote) to be sure, but attacking the bears seems the slower but safer path to victory.

Per Dave's report, the most recent election was literally this past interturn. We have a full 25 years to assemble a fleet, acquire some new worlds, an get a <1/3 veto before the 2450 election!

[haphazard1]

We do have as much time before the next election as is possible, which helps. Plus, if our opponents would be the Darloks, they are the Darloks. Not impossible for them to win the vote, but they tend to have poor relations with most races. If we still do not have contact with the remaining races, we will not be at war with them so they should not automatically vote against us. Possible problems would be anyone who is allied with the bears, but the report DaveV posted is current and shows no alliances (for now).

Looking at the vote totals DaveV listed, if we take enough bear pop to knock them out of contention then it could be the Silicoids as our opponent rather than the Darloks. (Both had 7 votes). That might be a problem, as we have no idea of the rocks' diplomatic relations with other races. But I think we will have to risk that -- we have to do something here, and going after the bears seems like our best option.

On bombers, we should have our projected "required force" plus at least 25% (and preferably more like plus 50%) to make certain we have enough. Falling just a bit short and having to wait for more ships to arrive would be a big setback. Plus we will want to proceed to hit additional planets, and will need to have a strong enough stack even if we lose some ships for each attack.

[shallow_thought]

Good points, Ianus - and you're right that our Doom Drives can dodge anything slower than Stingers even without using the Wait button if "piloted" correctly!

I'd need to see more up-to-date diplo information (and remind myself of the date, i.e. how long before the next vote) to be sure, but attacking the bears seems the slower but safer path to victory.

Per Dave's report, the most recent election was literally this past interturn.  We have a full 25 years to assemble a fleet, acquire some new worlds, an get a <1/3 veto before the 2450 election!

D'oh. The info was right there, albeit several pages back. And I yet again managed to cross post. At least this time we seem to have an agreement!

There are no guarantees of me piloting anything correctly (top of the screen, top of the screen...), but I'm sure I can't mess things up so badly Ianus can't fix them in the subsequent 10 years. 200ish bombers and a decent number of escorts / defenders, then death to the bears! Or at least some bears.

Apart from ships, we'll want some reserves ready to go into getting the new planets up. As for pop, our poor world is well placed if I remember correctly. What's the best way to generate a stream of pop, both from this world and others?  I'd probably plan to keep the poor world at 50% and pump away, while if I have to take pop from normal worlds I'd aim to force-grow back to max each turn. Is that sensible?

[DaveV]

OK, my goal seems clear:

150-160 [bombers]

I left the three northern planets on research, and put the southern five to work on shipbuilding.

2426 - IRC 4 comes in. Sigh. I put a couple of ticks into factory production for Argus and Paranar.



2427 - I steal Planetology tech from the Bulrathi (all six available). Two of the four available techs would have boosted our population potential considerably. Unfortunately, I got one of the other two:



Our own Planetology research finishes:



I picked +50 to open up the next tech rung, even though +40 is nearly as good and only 2/3 the price.

2429 - I steal Computer tech from the Bulrathi (Propulsion and Weapon were also available). +1 computer tech level for better future steal chances.



2430 - Mission accomplished:



Good luck, shallow_thought!

Notes: the Darloks are assembling a very large fleet at Proteus, but they haven't broken their NAP yet.



We may need to build a better defense force for Toranor.

Incedius and Mentar are both still on full ship construction. I was planning for Incedius to build a colony ship this turn.

[haphazard1]

Our luck stealing planetology tech has been terrible. Still gives us a little boost in total tech level, as does the computer tech. And it clears those techs out of the way for the future (spying or conquest).

IRC4 -- I would be tempted to take the time to max factories. More production drives everything else: more ship building, more research, more everything. And those factories will pay off for the rest of the game. We are very close to being ready to launch our assault on the bears, though. Hmmmm.

The Darlok fleet is getting quite large. But the needle design is one they have been using for quite some time, so is hopefully pretty old tech. The venom stack worries me more -- need to go back and look at the older info we had on their fleet, that may be a newer and more dangerous design. But some stronger defenses for our exposed border world might be a good idea.

[Mardoc]

IRC4 -- I would be tempted to take the time to max factories. More production drives everything else: more ship building, more research, more everything. And those factories will pay off for the rest of the game. We are very close to being ready to launch our assault on the bears, though. Hmmmm.

But then the Bulrathi might tech improved missiles or battle computers or something and us lurkers would miss out on a chance of blood!

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Also, it might make sense to wait for Factory cost 6 to come in.  Improves the payback rate considerably.