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[PB64] Amicalola Gets To Heaven with Tarkeel and Ljubljana

Ok, well this is interesting. Gavagai has kept moving units up, but into a position where immediate attack looks unlikely, but general attack still seems the plan. It's not what I was expecting.


I figured everything would be on the forest tile 1SW of the copper (the main reason I wanted to take Lenin way back when), where it forks Regret and Heaven perfectly. Apparently not. So perhaps Gavagai isn't planning to attack, although that makes holding the turn weird. I didn't declare and offer Fortune500, since it looks like that will get at least one more turn to live. If he declares, I can always offer it next turn. 

If Gavagai isn't attacking this turn, it sure looks like he's going to in the near future. That's pretty much all of his power on our border, in a nasty forking spot. But he's giving me time, so I'm using it. I put nearly every city back on wealth this turn, where I can just research HBR (those three islands might save the game yet). That will be of pretty enormous use if/when the attack does come. And the thing is, Gavagai should know that if he wants to attack, giving me time to prepare is the worst thing he could do. 

Which begs the question: what exactly is Gavagai playing at? I think there are four options:

1) He is planning to declare war, and completely bungled his unit moves. This seems unlikely. 
2) He is planning to declare war, but is waiting a short time. 
3) He's planning to declare war, but only take Fortune 500.
4) He is not planning to declare war, and is instead trying to keep the pressure up and slow me down with unit builds as opposed to buildings/wealth. 

Options 2 or 3 seem the most likely. If Gavagai is doing 4, then there's not much I can do other than adequately prepare. It's a good play, and I like it. Golfclap It doesn't seem super likely either though - Gavagai is still cranking out units nonstop, and the clock games would be very weird. If it's option 2, that begs its own question: what is Gavagai waiting for? Time is on my side, with more cities, a better economy (it might be 5th in the game, but at least Gavagai is 6th!), and a golden age. Even more importantly, I can build catapults and (I'm pretty sure) he can't. Gavagai knows that, so he'd have to be waiting for something big. My best (well, my only) guess would be that Naufragar might also join. I guess we'll just deal with that if it happens - I'd MUCH rather them both attack me, because at least then I have a chance to slow Naufragar down. Option 3 is the best of the bunch, would make me very happy (hard to believe I'm happy about being only 'somewhat' attacked shakehead). Some of these also give Gavagai a reason other than 'kingmaking' to be doing this, which would be a mental boost. 

If Gavagai does attack and try to take/raze more than Fortune 500, the game is likely Nauf's. I can't win without the luxuries at Get To Heaven, and I certainly can't win if I have to whip everything in my GA to prevent razes. At that point, I whip to the ground and see how much damage we can really do. The weird thing is, I kind of want Gavagai to do exactly that; at least then I'd lose the stress that this game's become. Which has me thinking more about the nature of Pitboss, and what my place in it is again, after somewhat forgetting about that during my more recent games. More on that at some point, maybe - it'd need it's own post.
Past Games: PB51  -  PB55  -  PB56  -  PB58 (Tarkeel's game)  - PB59  -  PB60  -  PB64  -  PB66  -  PB68 (Miguelito's game)     Current Games: None (for now...)
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Ya its a little stressful actually being in a winning position. Once you've been knocked down its less stressful and more rewarding mentally just keeping up the right and seeing how well you can bounce back.
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Well, the war was indeed declared. Gavagai moved about half his troops on Fortune500, and put the other half on the forest. Why he didn't just do that last turn is beyond me. I sent Gavagai an offer of peace for Fortune500. Then a demand for all of his cities. Then another offer for Fortune 500. We'll see if he gets the message, and/or if he cares. I'm top power this turn, with catapults vs. no catapults, so I'd hope it's pretty clear that any further serious attack is simple kingmaking.

Over by the island, Commodore FINALLY accepted my Open Borders request at a simply ridiculous bribe of ivory and 3gpt, considering I don't get any commerce from it (I will need circumnav at some point, though). But he did not return my fish/fish, and moved his galley into a position where it could hit Leviathan (an ironically-named zero food city) next turn. So I worry he is having opportunistic feelings himself, and wants to take a swing. Again, at that point, Naufragar basically just wins, because without that island I'm losing about 40 gold at 0% science. So hopefully I'm wrong.
Past Games: PB51  -  PB55  -  PB56  -  PB58 (Tarkeel's game)  - PB59  -  PB60  -  PB64  -  PB66  -  PB68 (Miguelito's game)     Current Games: None (for now...)
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(July 13th, 2022, 08:01)Mjmd Wrote: Ya its a little stressful actually being in a winning position. Once you've been knocked down its less stressful and more rewarding mentally just keeping up the right and seeing how well you can bounce back.

(turn report above) Honestly, it sounds super silly but it really is. Turns 140-180 in PB59, where I was just peacefully rebuilding my broken empire, were much more fun than Turns 100-140 or 220-250. It's hard to explain, but I suppose the other people who've played here probably get it. It's something very distinct to civ, at least.
Past Games: PB51  -  PB55  -  PB56  -  PB58 (Tarkeel's game)  - PB59  -  PB60  -  PB64  -  PB66  -  PB68 (Miguelito's game)     Current Games: None (for now...)
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According to PBSpy, Gavagai fucking razed the city. Which gives Naufragar the wet corn, and gains Gavagai nothing. Yeah, I'm done - Naufragar can have this one. He's a good player, he's played fine here, and he deserved a win at some point. At least the pressure's off now. Let's see how much damage we can really do if we set our mind to it.
Past Games: PB51  -  PB55  -  PB56  -  PB58 (Tarkeel's game)  - PB59  -  PB60  -  PB64  -  PB66  -  PB68 (Miguelito's game)     Current Games: None (for now...)
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Checking the combat log is even worse. Want to know the odds of these combats? 20%, 18%, 19%, 75%. That's right, on top of the last war's fight, Gavagai won three 1/5 rolls in a row to capture the city without losing a single unit. It doesn't really matter here, but that's just insulting. 
   
Gavagai played a 10-minute turn 125 in a hot war. He's not interested in winning; this might be the most blatant kingmaking I've ever seen in an RB game. The raze didn't even occur to me because it's so blatant. I'll either need to not post, or post the bare minimum for a little while, because nothing I can think to say is even remotely helpful at the moment. A long-term replacement is more than welcome, I'd even consider holding the game up to find one. But if no one wants to take over, I can keep playing; I just wouldn't expect any reports for a while.
Past Games: PB51  -  PB55  -  PB56  -  PB58 (Tarkeel's game)  - PB59  -  PB60  -  PB64  -  PB66  -  PB68 (Miguelito's game)     Current Games: None (for now...)
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See now you can consider yourself the underdog and the pressure is off.
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Hey, Amicalola. alright

I sympathize with your unhappiness about this game right now. I think all Pitboss players can.
I just hope that you can at least feel good about your new game in Pitboss 66. And maybe this one will eventually not so bad anymore. The enemy players are rarely as hateful as you think they are in the moment. smile
Participated in: Pitboss 40 (lurked by Mr. Cairo), Pitboss 45 (lurked by Charriu and chumchu), Pitboss 63 (replaced Mr. Cairo), Pitboss 66Pitboss 69, Pitboss 74
Participating in: Pitboss 78 (lurked by GT), Pitboss 79 (lurking giraflorens)

Criticism welcome!
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(July 15th, 2022, 16:04)Magic Science Wrote: Hey, Amicalola. alright

I sympathize with your unhappiness about this game right now. I think all Pitboss players can.
I just hope that you can at least feel good about your new game in Pitboss 66. And maybe this one will eventually not so bad anymore. The enemy players are rarely as hateful as you think they are in the moment. smile

Hey MS, I appreciate it. I am mostly feeling better. Well, I'm feeling sad, but 'normal game sad' rather than 'adult temper tantrum' sad. wink Don't worry, I'm still looking forward to PB66! And hey, since this comment also cheered me up, here's a report:

I've never fought a serious war on the defense before. It's really interesting, and it turns out I'm quite bad at it. smoke It's very different to attacking, that's for sure. To a point, my streak of poor luck continues (first Gavagai's attack, then Naufragar lost less catapults than expected). But mostly, the issue is the type of units I've been whipping - too many catapults and not enough not-catapults. It's been a good lesson, I already feel that I'd do much better were this to be replayed, or were I to die in some other game in the future. 

And make no mistake; this is no longer a war of 'maximise win chances.' It is a war of survival. Naufragar is going to take The Wheel this turn, with his stack being just big enough to beat my defenders head-to-head. About 2 catapults less, and I'd have held my choke point fairly easily. frown 


Nauf's stack is a little pathetic, but luckily Sumerian best-boy Gavagai is tying down all of my units elsewhere. Get To Heaven cannot fall, or I am as good as dead - it provides two happiness to every city, and without it my happy cap is functionally around 3. 

Ah well. I should have picked one direction to defend more firmly in, and one to ignore more, which is a good lesson to learn. This is because Gavagai also has a decent chance to take Get To Heaven this turn:


It's about 25% or so, mostly swinging based on the outcome of the first few fights. If he gets lucky again there, he takes the city. If not, he probably doesn't. The 25% where he does take the city is a total blowout and I die quickly, but abandoning the city isn't much better, so I think it's worth the risk standing our ground here. Notably, if Gavagai had just a few less units (say, three less axes rolleye), the odds would be zero and he would be in deep shit here. I am clinging on to the fallacy that being so unlucky earlier makes me more likely to get lucky now.
 
I think he's basically guaranteed to attack this turn though, because if he doesn't I can counter-attack and basically crush his stack. So it's now or never for him. Let's see if the Ethiopian streak of luck holds.

Commodore was indeed feeling snipe-y, but my paranoia came in handy for once. I tried to war peace (and screwed up how the teleports would work for each of our boats Doh), and he landed two horse units on the island. I had a spear which was able to kill the HA, and my axe cleaned up the chariot. At least something is going right.

I have a more general thoughts/post-mortem of the game coming up, but it'll be long and take a while to write, so it'll come when it's ready. It'll probably be in two parts, how I feel about the game and how I feel about pitboss civ in general (which seems to change frequently). Until then, I will try to keep up the turn reports and see how painful I can make it. smile
Past Games: PB51  -  PB55  -  PB56  -  PB58 (Tarkeel's game)  - PB59  -  PB60  -  PB64  -  PB66  -  PB68 (Miguelito's game)     Current Games: None (for now...)
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(July 15th, 2022, 19:54)Amicalola Wrote: And make no mistake; this is no longer a war of 'maximise win chances.' It is a war of survival. Naufragar is going to take Get to Heaven this turn, with his stack being just big enough to beat my defenders head-to-head. About 2 catapults less, and I'd have held my choke point fairly easily. frown 

[...]

Nauf's stack is a little pathetic, but luckily Sumerian best-boy Gavagai is tying down all of my units elsewhere. Get To Heaven cannot fall, or I am as good as dead - it provides two happiness to every city, and without it my happy cap is functionally around 3. 

Surely, Nauf is about to take The Wheel?
Playing: PB74
Played: PB58 - PB59 - PB62 - PB66 - PB67
Dedlurked: PB56 (Amicalola) - PB72 (Greenline)
Maps: PB60 - PB61 - PB63 - PB68 - PB70 - PB73 - PB76

There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
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