He was in the "already decided" pile-on on Commodore on D2 with GES and Kaiser. (Technically Rowain as well, though Rowain had telegraphed all day that he was going to end on Commodore.)
Kaiser
Votes:
Kaiser was on Thrawn. I don't remember much about his day one other than him getting a lot of town cred for WoT. Day 2 a meaningless pile on vote on Commodore. D3 part of the late Lewwyn push to lynch me. D4 was one of the captains of the scum Meiz train. So not a lot of credit in there.
Role-claim:
I still don't buy it even if everyone else does. Sorry, not sorry.
Vibe:
Has felt scummy all game to me. I just keep getting Roland vibes from him.
I am not sure why you have me in the already decided "commodore" camp there. I switched very late, even inconsequentially as someone (Rowain?) voted before me to change the tally from a good to a strong Commodore lead. I was overanalyzing that day and quickly concluded my preferred vote to be Adrien who already had lost traction again when I posted.
Who is Roland, I am compared to him a lot and do not know why besides that he wrote WoT?
Are there any other scummy vibes or maybe even reasons why you think I am scum?
It would be great to see you answering to my questions at some point!
An hour and half and a bit of chatter later, sunrise pops in. At this point, if he does nothing, Meiz hangs. If he votes Meiz, Meiz hangs. If he votes Bob, Bob hangs.
sunrise's first post is not germane to the current situation, which with 41 minutes to deadline the only thing that matters is if we lynch Meiz or Bob. He's likely catching up in the thread at this point. This post is about how he didn't switch to me. He posts again 7 minutes later about Kaiser. One minute later, pindicator jumps in and votes Bob, Meiz crossposts (same timestamp on both pindicator and Meiz posts) at that point wondering (as I was) why sunrise hasn't switched his vote to one of the two relevant candidates.
At this point, Bob hangs and Meiz is safe in a tie, because he has dropped 2 votes below Bob.
sunrise replies to Meiz about this after the Meiz suspicion. He waits until 19 minutes til deadline and puts a vote on me. Now my read on this at the time, was that he either didn't want to be part of the lynch (cowardly, but townish) OR he was hoping to peel pindicator off who had expressed the most interest besides him in lynching me, off of Bob which would potentially re-open the Meiz lynch (unlikely, but scummy.)
So, I don't see the miss in Meiz's analysis. Now granted, there were a total of 8 minutes from when sunrise showed up until pindicator changed the calculus.
The relevant piece here is before Pindicator's vote, sunrise arrived in the thread as the swing voter. At that point, if nothing changes Meiz hangs. If he votes Meiz, Meiz hangs. If he votes Bob, Bob hangs. If Bob comes in and votes Meiz, and then sunrise jumps on Bob, Meiz hangs in the tiebreak, Bob looks clean because he's voting to save himself and sunrise doesn't get dirty because he's in the right place at the end. If sunrise and Bob are both scum, the best play is this. The second best play is the one where nobody does anything and Meiz hangs. My supposition is that Bob was going to come in and vote after sunrise warmed up the room a bit but then pindicator threw things off by voting as he did and then sunrise and Bob decided it wasn't worth exposing sunrise's deep cover to save him. And there is no good reason to expect pindicator to change his mind - he's upset at Meiz and everyone knows it.
Why is Sunrise the swing voter and not Bob?
Or Rowain, who is worth 2 votes due to GES deciding for a strategical vote style?
Ok, let us assume Sunrise is a wolf, he came back and read the thread and instead talking about the Meiz - Kaiser interaction he votes Meiz
5 Meiz, 4 Bob, 1 Kaiser
Pindicator votes Bob within a minute of his post, so the tally would change to
5 Bob, 4 Meiz, 1 Kaiser
Even if Bob then switches to Meiz, he would still be lynched.
The only way for a Bob-Sunrise wolf combo to win the tiebreak would have been for Sunrise and Bob to vote immediately after each other on Meiz. This is not accounting for wolf #3 in this scenario.
So basically your accusation of Sunrise boils down to not voting immediately for Bob or Meiz?
I see this as more towny to actually read up on the arguments before throwing out a vote. I remember Commodore came up on Day1 or Day2 with a "I throw my vote there while I read up". Sunrise hat 41 minutes to consider his vote.
I feel you are not accounting in your description for pindicators switch, which was surprising but could have taken place by any player on Meiz at that time.
(October 13th, 2020, 20:38)Jabbz Wrote: Kaiser
Slight scum lean.
The bit at the end of night bothers me more as other people bring up stuff I hadn't thought about. The primary problem I think I have at this point is the timing, which has been pointed out by others. You posted that too late if your intent was to deceive. It makes that deception start to look really bad. I have trouble seeing what you gain out of doing so however, so the lean stays small.
The timing was bad, you are right, I did not think it through as the main motivation for me was to keep my last charge for later while keeping the wolves in the dark. I feel using the power without a good idea is like shooting ducks in the dark and Voyuer gives few information.
In hindsight I should have used it on you or GES to confirm your check status, or on pindicator's unknown target last night.
Please check here for some thoughts about how I should have reacted in different scenarios, maybe this will help you understand why I am town and my play shows that I am
(October 9th, 2020, 11:00)Gold Ergo Sum Wrote: Speaking of odd votes, Jerry! voted for Simp D1, Swanson D2, and Bee-Boy D3. That's three for three voting the lowest vote getter. This appears to be time-related potentially. Omar got no clue where Jerry! walks the streets. Omar not one to call someone out for availability, but again, will leave it to those with baseline reads on Jerry! if his activity alone is a tell one way or the other. All things being equal though, Jerry! the last of you players at all entertaining Omar, so Omar would probably tiebreak with a reprieve just so he don't die of boredom reading this thread if it was a close call.
It's because of my job! I don't have access to RB while at work, which is a travesty, Jerry, a real shame, and it's very upsetting, but what can you do?? Also I'm on alternating late-night shifts and tend to stay up way too late on weekends with Jerry, Kramer, and Elaine, and have admittedly slept through at least one deadline! It's shameful to admit! George is getting EMBARRASSED here, Jerry! But anyway, it is what it is, and I don't foresee it changing in the future, so George almost certainly won't be boarding this last-hour vote trains, no matter how much I might want to (probably not much). It's a tough life, but I'm committed to helping out those Yankees! Or whoever I currently work for!
Just for reference, here's Bob's info on his availability on deadlines. So at least my guess is that he would not be lying here, but actually unavailable on deadlines.
(October 14th, 2020, 07:06)Kaiser Wrote: I am not sure why you have me in the already decided "commodore" camp there. I switched very late, even inconsequentially as someone (Rowain?) voted before me to change the tally from a good to a strong Commodore lead. I was overanalyzing that day and quickly concluded my preferred vote to be Adrien who already had lost traction again when I posted.
Who is Roland, I am compared to him a lot and do not know why besides that he wrote WoT?
Are there any other scummy vibes or maybe even reasons why you think I am scum?
It would be great to see you answering to my questions at some point!
As I said, your vote was late and inconsequential. Rowain is not colored with the same brush because he made it clear that he wanted to lynch Commodore all day long. Rowain always moves his vote around a lot for pressure but usually you know where he wants to end up.
Roland is someone who played in the early WW games and got tons of town cred for long analysis posts. He skated through a game with a flawless scum victory based on this fact. Since then, I am very suspicious of people who post a lot of really dense analysis posts.
I have stated the reasons I think you are suspicious before Kaiser. I am dubious on your role claim. I see that your posts sow a lot of confusion and have a lot of fanciful theories. And your voting history is suspect. Mostly, its a vibe I get from you, which generally speaking, is enough for me to vote someone.
I've got some dirt on my shoulder, can you brush it off for me?
Going to be exteremely intermittent on mobile throughout the deadline, so don't expect much new info from me at this point.
I will try to keep an eye on the thread.
If I do hang, I think I've left my suspicions pretty clear in this thread. But to reiterate. If I had to pick two scum right now it would be sunrise and Kaiser. But meta and other concerns mean I'm still suspicious of GES/Jabbz as well and those two are what I would try to parse if sunrise hangs and flips blue. Rowain is town. I'm pretty darned sure Meiz is town. I also think Alhambram is probably town.
I've got some dirt on my shoulder, can you brush it off for me?
(October 14th, 2020, 07:22)Kaiser Wrote: Why is Sunrise the swing voter and not Bob?
Or Rowain, who is worth 2 votes due to GES deciding for a strategical vote style?
Ok, let us assume Sunrise is a wolf, he came back and read the thread and instead talking about the Meiz - Kaiser interaction he votes Meiz
5 Meiz, 4 Bob, 1 Kaiser
Pindicator votes Bob within a minute of his post, so the tally would change to
5 Bob, 4 Meiz, 1 Kaiser
Even if Bob then switches to Meiz, he would still be lynched.
The only way for a Bob-Sunrise wolf combo to win the tiebreak would have been for Sunrise and Bob to vote immediately after each other on Meiz. This is not accounting for wolf #3 in this scenario.
So basically your accusation of Sunrise boils down to not voting immediately for Bob or Meiz?
I see this as more towny to actually read up on the arguments before throwing out a vote. I remember Commodore came up on Day1 or Day2 with a "I throw my vote there while I read up". Sunrise hat 41 minutes to consider his vote.
I feel you are not accounting in your description for pindicators switch, which was surprising but could have taken place by any player on Meiz at that time.
No one can expect Pindicator's to-be switch and I think at the time, any player swithing away from me (indicator, Jabbz, Kaiser, Alhambram) seemed unlikely. Additionally I think one wolf was alread onto me. So as scum-sunrise, there would be motivation to wait out a bit before making sure that Bob will be the one to hang. If anyone changes from Bob to me, I'm 100% dead. Though I personally see as likely explanation being an unsure scum behavior (hesitance to kill wolfpal), as I've described before.
(October 14th, 2020, 07:06)Kaiser Wrote: Who is Roland, I am compared to him a lot and do not know why besides that he wrote WoT?
Are there any other scummy vibes or maybe even reasons why you think I am scum?
Roland was a terrible town-player and far better wolf. He bludgeoned people into silence with huge walls of text.
A post of him where he kept it brief: (He was wolf there)
(September 9th, 2011, 17:29)Roland Wrote: Since I'm still at work I'm going to keep this brief, and I'm hoping that between now and when I do finally get home - and get around to a proper reply - I'll be a little calmer. However...
Right now I'm ready to give you confrontation out the ass, zakalwe, not least of which for your behavior yesterday and uberfish's last words. I went into this trying to be a bit more relaxed than I have in the past, but it's tough to change who you are, and if trying to be "better" is going to make me seem "worse" I have no problems raising my voice a bit.
TO address one concern: I just this past weekend completed a month-long move into a new place. I've been backed up at work, and thus having to stay late a few nights a week. On top of that my place is packed full of boxes and whatnot, and I've had to budget my very limited time between unpacking, running errands, and everything else that goes on in life. So excuse me for not having as much time as I'd like to devote to this game. Oh, and yeah, not having internet anywhere but work for over 2 weeks hasn't helped me get much done, either (and not just here).
I'm sure you didn't mean to tick me off, but given your history, and how easily you get tunnel vision, I'm sure you can do me the courtesy of excusing my heated response.
Now, I'm going to finish up here at work and hope to be home within a couple hours. Maybe I'll cook some dinner before I come back on here - eating always settles my temper; I'm like a bear when I'm hungry.
Sucks that we lost uberfish, sucks that we lost Rowain, and I guess I have to say it sucks that we lost Lewwyn - when he doesn't have his head up his ass he's a decent player in the late game, and since he wasn't a 'Wolf I guess that could have been the case here, too. Those are some of the strongest players around, in my opinion, and losing 3 Villagers in the first Day / Night cycle is not a good way to start. Let's see if we can't turn that around - especially since we now used the Vigilante shot (if I understand what happened correctly - I'm new to this role) AND lost our Roleblocker.
Oh, and before I forget - what is with the moratorium on nighttime chat? That must be something new because I never remember such a silent Night 1 in any of the games I read (although I just skimmed the mid-to-late of WW6). Are we trying to hide from the 'Wolves, or are we just shooting ourselves in the foot by giving away free discussion time (which, I thought, was what the Village always had to their advantage - time to discuss things)?
Anyway, enough ranting.
And links to 2 of his not so brief posts from the same game:post1, post2
