[SPOILERS - PBEM17] Kyan Does Dallas. The Orange Sensation.

[oledavy]

Domestic News

Printing press finished and I queued up guilds, due next turn.

Domestic Advisor Screen:



More East Indiamen coming online. With all the Eat Indiamen running around, I'm at a loss of what to do with my two galleys and trireme. I've left them near Edessa - they could always be useful to have them around for sentry duty.

My exploring East Indiamen discovered another island:



If the spacing holds true, I expect one or two more islands south of these three. These islands will cost a ridiculous amount of maintenance to settle. However, I ultimately think it will be a good long-term move to claim this land. Fishing villages for a financial civ tend to be a good move. Plus, state property is coming online soon, and I can use that to make these holdings profitable. I already see 4 new sources of seafood among these islands. Sid's Sushi anyone? I need to work on getting a Great Merchant.

The Forbidden Palace finished in Sidon, and I spread Buddhism to Sidon and Damietta, hitting Shoot up for two more gold.

I made a dumb micro mistake Jericho was just a few GPP short of being 1t away from a GS. To speed it along and make sure I got education next turn, I went ahead and pushed the city into starvation to get the Great Scientist in one turn. Michael Faraday was born at the end of the turn, but he bulbs 1304 beakers for scientific method! Not Education. That's about 3 turns of research. I will probably use him to bulb this and speed me along to physics and communism.

International News

Darrell researched Optics
NoSpace researched Optics
Rego researched alphabet
Shoot researched banking

Everyone now has the ability to research astronomy. Time to step up my colonization efforts and watch out for NoSpace or Rego teching Chemistry. I'm the tech leader at the moment, but it won't last for much longer and I'll slip back into the middle of the pack.

Rego spread Buddhism to his cap, which now has four religions. I guess he is going for 4 monastaries?

Darrell went into a golden age and revolted into serfdom (an interesting choice) pacifism, nationhood and bureacracy.

NoSpace spent their GM on a trade mission in Bursa for ~1600 gold.

Rego is starting to get a little frisky in the north, around Alexandria.



He moved a longbowman and spearman to that island in the center of the map. I believe to act as sentries. He also trained a catapult in Ilios. You only train those if you are planning on attacking or expecting someone to throw a stack at you. The first drafted maceman is still 4t out from Alexandria. I hope he does not plan on attacking before that point. I marked a tile which will serve as the staging point for my Northern Fleet - to repel any naval invasion he tries to launch while simultaneously threatening one of my own.

[oledavy]

Shoot's response to my 'War Plans' email:

[COLOR="Green"]A couple initial thoughts:

First, we should keep the tile 2W of Bursa in mind as an initial staging tile. Having the stack of EIs there on the first turn that the NAP expires is something to keep in mind. Considering I have visibility on Trading Post, we can keep the stack 1NE of Bursa up until that last turn and then decide whether it would be better to have the sneak attack aspect on Trading Post or the 4-city forking on the first turn of hostilities based on what I can see in Trading Post.

Second, do you think you could add in another East Indianman for my east? Nospace just settled an island city 4E, 1N of my eastern city of Maltaya. It is defended right now by only a longbow and has next to no means of production, so just one EI and two or three rifles should assure of a city capture. That EI could also be useful then in scouting Rego and making sure he doesn't attack my southern side.

Anyway those are just my initial thoughts, will try to get some more on paper later (including some thoughts on the unresolved issues).

Shoot[/COLOR]

The updated ledger I sent to Shoot:

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Shoot -

Buddhism spread to two more cities on my turn, and I requested two more gold from you.

Here is the updated ledger:

t94 - 1 city
t95 - 3 cities
t96 - 3 cities (requested 7 gold payment)
t97 - 3 cities (requested 3 GPT)
t98 - 3 cities
t99 - 3 cities
t100 - 3 cities
t101 - 6 cities (requested additional 3 GPT)
t102- 6 cities
t103 - 6 cities
t103 - 6 cities
t104 - 6 cities
t105 - 6 cities
t106 - 7 cities (requested 1 gold payment)
t107 - 7 cities (offered 1gpt)
t108 - 9 cities (requested 2 gold payment)

Rego spread Buddhism to his capital: Plako. I believe for a fourth monastery.

Regards,
Dave[/COLOR]

[oledavy]

Well, the string of 1t techs ended this turn I'm running 100% research this turn to get most of the beakers on education, and will run about 30% next turn to finish it off. I plan on spending a couple turns in max gold after that.

The string of 1t techs lasted eight turns and was:

Hunting
Alphabet
Machinery
Optics
Astronomy
Paper
Printing Press
Guilds

Michael Faraday is bound for Edessa. I still haven't decided what to do with him - but there's no urgency to bulb Scientific Method - and if I decide to burn him on another academy it will be built in Edessa.

I spread Buddhism to Beruit this turn, and hit up Shoot for more GPT.

The upcoming economic problem I have is a lack of markets and grocers to boost my yield while in max gold. My tech rate at max science is comprable to anyone else's (and will be at rough parity with Rego's once I get Oxford up) but is abysmal at max gold. Granted, no one else has built a ton of markets and grocers yet either, but I don't expect that to last long. One of the trade offs of building up a military.

The HMS Minotaur and HMS Agamemnon were launched this turn, bringing my total up to 14 East Indiamen. The power graph:



I've gone from fifth to third in power in a fairly short period of time.

My ships continued scouting what I'm beginning to call 'The Southern Isles' - discovering a fourth one this turn with desert hill marble on it. I dot-mapped the first three this turn.



I am settling the westernmost isle in two turns. NoSpace and Darrell now have astronomy so it might very well be a race to settle all of these fishing villages first. I need to detail a couple workers and missionaries out for these islands, not to mention military

Krill recaptured the Ivory Tile:



And that was about all for this turn, though a bit has been going on diplomatically, as any lurkers out there will see in my next post.

Does anyone know if Corporations and Airships are on the table for this game?

I went through the organizing thread and could not find the finalized game settings. I would rather not ask one of the other players and tip them off if I don't have too

[oledavy]

Diplomacy With NoSpace

I've had a couple conversations with Novice and Spaceman over the last couple days. The most notable development is that they offered to trade world maps with me via gmail chat. Spaceman forgot to offer it on his turn and asked me to offer it when I got the save. On t110 will finally have a complete map of their lands.

In one of these conversations, Novice said "You'll be happy to hear I have no experience in Renaissance wars." So yeah....he's on to my spiking power graph I haven't managed to spend enough EPs on it to cover mine up I fear.

They both seem like very reasonable, well-spoken guys and I am starting to feel a but guilty plotting their demise. Then I remind myself it is just a game. Nonetheless, they've both played exceedingly well, and I would love to play with them sometime in the future.

I sent this email to Shoot and Krill regarding the map trade:

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]So yeah....NoSpace offered to trade world maps with me :D I'm gifting you both the map when my turn comes up. Note that this means they also have a complete map of the world.

Regards,
Dave[/COLOR]

I'll gift the new world maps to both of them on t110

Diplomacy With Rego

I haven't had an in depth conversation with Rego in awhile. Which I hope - combined with my spiking power graph - is starting to unnerve him and getting him to throw some hammers into military instead of playing Sim City. The cool-down on our NAP expires next turn. If he suspects anything he hasn't spoken to me about it yet. I'm hoping by spending EPs on NoSpace and Rego and not resigning the NAP with Rego, that I will keep them guessing my true target.

Speaking of Operation Sledgehammer

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Hey guys,

I know you both probably have a lot going on irl. However, I do need some feedback on my operational plan for war with NoSpace, so we can start working out the details of the plan - that is, if you both still want to go ahead with it. I would like to set an attack date to work towards, and so we know when to cancel NAPs.

Regards,
Dave[/COLOR]

Shoot sent a short email to me regarding his thoughts on Operation Sledgehammer, with promises of more to come soon. That was three days ago. I'm beginning to wonder when he's going to get around to it - though in fairness he has been busy (We've both signed up to play on the same team in PB6).

I haven't heard from Krill at all. Krill's lack of diplomatic contact is unnerving and really annoying. I thought he was an ally not a mime (albeit a very scary mime).

Overall, I am started to get very flustered with the planning of this operation. I am doing my damnedest to get it off the ground and build the forces I need, and Krill hasn't even researched gunpowder yet. Shoot is building up and is not as responsive as I'd like, but at least I'm hearing from him.

I sent an email to both regarding other outstanding issues as well:

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Hey Krill,

Glad to see you recaptured the ivory tile and we straightened that mess out.

At the end of your tentacle closest to me is a banana which I am currently about to cultivate and road. Do you mind if I enter your territory with my worker and road until it is connected to your trade network - so I can gain access to the resource?

Best Regards,
Dave[/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Hey Shoot!

Buddhism spread to another city this turn, updated ledger:

t94 - 1 city
t95 - 3 cities
t96 - 3 cities (requested 7 gold payment)
t97 - 3 cities (requested 3 GPT)
t98 - 3 cities
t99 - 3 cities
t100 - 3 cities
t101 - 6 cities (requested additional 3 GPT)
t102 – 6 cities
t103 – 6 cities
t104 – 6 cities
t105 – 6 cities
t106 – 7 cities (requested 1 gold payment)
t107 - 7 cities (offered 1GPT)
t108 - 9 cities (requested 2 gold payment)
t109 - 10 cities (offered 2 GPT + requested 1 gold payment)

Regards,

Dave[/COLOR]

My NAP Status

Shoot: No NAP
Rego: No NAP
Krill: Rolling NAP with 10t Cooldown
NoSpace: Rolling NAP with 10t Cooldown

I don't plan on telling anyone my plans to settle all the Southern Isles. Only Krill and NoSpace have astronomy at the moment anyway and I am leagues ahead of them in my settling effort, courtesy of researching astronomy first. Posession is 90% of the law in Civ

[oledavy]

Techs Researched Last Turn:

Krill - Astronomy
NoSpace - Astronomy
Rego - Printing Press
Shoot - Theology

I'm going to start falling significantly behind if I don't do something to boost my tech rate quickly. NoSpace and Krill's detour to astronomy is slightly puzzling. NoSpace I guess wants the ability to attack Shoot, or is headed towards chemistry so they can beat me on the seas. I don't know why Krill wants astronomy, if I'm the one supplying all the ships for the invasion. He may be heading for physics/communism. That makes little sense though; as its an even bigger diversion from rifling. I really hope he doesn't nab them first, because I plan to

Rego is now pretty close to rifling. Shoot researched Theology for the theocracy bonus. Depending on how things develop in regards to our war, I may head straight for scientific method and physics/communism, using Michael Faraday to bulb half of SM.

[oledavy]

Oh I forgot to mention - last turn Rego founded the new city of Polka. I'm pretty sure I know where both his recent city plants are located.

NoSpace founded the city of Liquid Assets, which I'll have visibility on after I get his map next turn.

[oledavy]

Conversation with Rego:

hey there
hey, what's up?
your power graph? :-D
yours too it seems
not as rapidly as yours
i assume you're doing some drafting?
a bit yes
globe city already online so might as well make use of it
ah nice
damascus
are you looking at my land right now in the save?
yes
ah yes, seemed like the best place
so, I'm sure you didn't start chatting just to mention my power graph is rising
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]well i was wondering what your plans were with that
and if i needed to be worried
and to confirm our NAP status, which i think the initial term ran out so either of us could cancel with a 5t warning?[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]t110 last turn of the cooldown by my understanding, after that no NAP exists
NAP ran to t105, automatic cool down lasting until 110
earliest possible cancelation date, t100
confirm?[/COLOR]
hold on
okay
[COLOR="Yellow"]davidharris93: that's only an eight turn extension, I would prefer to extend it to turn 110 or so, can be cancelled with a 5t notice starting 105
we later made that 105 instead of 110
but that was the line that made me think it was ongoing even after turn 105/110[/COLOR]
I was under the impression that it just lasted to that point
well do you have plans to attack me in the next 5 turns?
no
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]thought I might ask you if you plan likewise :P
sentries on the middle island
building cats
either your expecting something or planning something[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]nope i'm a peaceful fellow
but it's prudent to be prepared i think[/COLOR]
fair enough
so would you be interested in some sort of indefinite nap with a shorter (~5-6t) cooloff
not particularly
dun dun dun
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: I don't plan on attacking you in the near future
but I have a military, and no need for an NAP as a shield[/COLOR]
i see
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]at any rate, I'm about to run to lunch
see ya![/COLOR]
okay

The more I play this game, the more I think my diplomacy is probably terrible and as transparent as a window. I definitely do not possess Kyan's level of skill in that regard.

However, I did accomplish my objective here by at least worrying Rego, and getting him to pursue an NAP extension. Let's face it, he's the clear leader, and sooner or later I'm going to need to go after him if I want to have a chance to win the game. I would rather attack him than NoSpace at this point - but its too late to turn back. At the very least though, I can continue my misdirection campaign: flash some East Indiamen, move macemen to Alexandria and put my own sentries on the island. All designed to worry him and get him to build military instead of city improvements. Additionally, I have Mjolnir to fall back on if he decides to get involved in the NoSpace war (provided I have troops in position by that time to execute it). If he is working with NoSpace, he'll hopefully pass this on and ideally lead them to believe that my rising power levels are meant for him and not them.

I am really kicking myself for going along with that NAP with a 10t cooldown with NoSpace. It's length is ridiculous and will destroy any hope of surprising them. The only way we'll win is by bringing in overwhelming force. I am seriously considering taking Sulla's advice from his postgame PB4 write-up and break the NAP. However I would rather come away from this game with my integrity as a player intact, even if it does mean abiding by what I'm starting to see as a ridiculous NAP.

Krill's response to my prompt for war pLanning feedback:

I think it'll work quite well, however, I might need to make some adjustments on my part - tactics, not strategy though.

Quite verbose :P Still a response is a response. I'm surprised he thinks it will work. Maybe I don't fail at planning MP ops

His response to my worker roading the banana resource:

No problem with the roading.

And Shoot's response to my Buddhism Update:

Sounds good, I'll be sending another gpt offer (if I ever see the save...it's been a while. Perhaps this is just the civ gods way of getting me prepared for PB6 though, haha)

Thoughts anyone? If my diplomacy is that bad I would prefer being told here so I can improve it, rather than in the lurker thread

[Gaspar]

Not a lot one can say without spoiling things, sir. Your insights are interesting though.

[oledavy]

[COLOR="SeaGreen"]Dave,

Is there any chance we could work out a deal for me to get an EI soon? There is at least one island near me I would like to settle that would require a galleon to get to (it is not near you -- don't worry I'm not trying to steal one of your islands with your own EI). The HMS Prince is particularly well positioned for the island in question, although if you are using that to explore really any of the EIs you have stacked on the tile 1E of Edessa would be fine too. Let me know what you think.[/COLOR]

Shoot's caravel spotted my exploring East Indiamen, and he wants to settle the fourth and southernmost isle I found - the one with desert hill marble and crabs. I was really hoping to settle all of those islands for myself, however, that island is the farthest away from me and would be especially costly to settle anyway. Marble just isn't that big this late in the game. I would rather mantain my close relations with Shoot by not disputing his claim to the island, as he could easily claim a couple other of the islands I'm planning to settle as within his sphere of interest. Besides, I would rather have him settle it than Rego or NoSpace.

I spoke to him in chat and agreed to gift the HMS Prince to him under the same terms I would be loaning all my East Indiamen, which are as follows:

- Loan for the duration of the upcoming war, due back to me at the conclusion.
- They cannot be used against me.
- If any are lost, the loaner owes me a 53 gold (1:1 hammer to gold ratio) indemnity for the loss of the ship.

When we go to war, the deal will extend to include a fair cut of any conquests and pillage gold. Overall, I think it's a decent deal, if anything a little light on my end. Still, having someone else pay maintenance on my ships and use them to go after one of my rivals doesn't strike me as too bad of an arrangement. Thoughts on this deal anyone?

The other interesting thing that happened was this email from Krill:

Looking at this turns demographics, I think rego is the more important player to take out of the game. His demos are just better than No Spaces.

I sent this back:

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]I agree wholeheartedly, and would prefer to take Rego down a notch. He is starting to pull away with this game. Once he gets Oxford online the situation will only get worse. I briefly spoke to Shoot regarding this a couple weeks ago and he's fine with going after with either.

As a quick note, this would mess with the diplomatic game I've been playing with Rego. Shoot believes NoSpace and Rego are working closely together. To keep them guessing the target (and to get Rego to stop playing Sim City) I've been practicing brinksmanship and refused to renew my NAP with rego when he inquired yesterday. If we do decide to attack Rego, perhaps a bit of additional misdirection by the three of us simultaneously canceling our NAPs with NoSpace?

Dave[/COLOR]

I'm very interested to hear what he'll have to say to that.

[oledavy]

Shoot updated his thread!!!

Okay, I have a lot to cover in the next few posts, so might as well get started with a brief turn 110 review.

Here is the island Shoot wants to settle:



On the upper left hand side of the screen is the HMS Prince headed to the nearest Ottoman port.

I love how my production is even higher than Shoot's and Krill's in a golden age.



Still, I put down those ~20 workshops at the expense of cottages. I'm still not quite sure if the workshop plan was a good one. Towns are just so obscenely powerful in the late game.

NoSpace finally traded me a map of their lands.



Population Comparison:

Nospace - 20 Cities - 149 Population (20 Free specialists)
Dave - 18 Cities - 151 Population

A brief survey of their lands shows a lot of farms. They are definitely running that specialist economy to the max. While this has worked out really well for them short term - the lack of cottages for the later game does not bode well for them.