REM goes on the Sudric Express [Pitboss 33 spoilers]

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

There's lots to talk about from the turn I just played, but at the turn roll - GW struck... Can't believe I forgot about GW. Even without nukes, only half of the players are able to build factories and we are getting strikes. We are going to be fighting over barren desert landscape with fishing villages by the end of the game

At least it wasn't a tile that I was using (a grassland wine in a newly built city) and I suppose I can use this to definitely secure the wine and maybe pave over the others, but this is gonna get bad fast.

We already have 1 badhealth per city with the free forges. Then an extra 1 per factory. I bet there are a fair few drydocks which are also all 1 badhealth. I've never known if power adds to it but I think it probably will. I would imagine that with Drey4E getting factories/power we will see 1 GW strike every other turn roughly... Civ guys are definitely environmentalists at heart. What I wouldn't give now to be cleaning up a skull instead.

Before I can get the pictures up, one other thought. Does GW strike before or after production at the end of turn in a pitboss? 1 unlucky GW strike and one can loose their oil here. If it is before production happens a whole turn could be lost! I assume it is with the barbs at the start of a turn but if anyone knows would appreciate it.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

So what did I do? I just looked in and I see that Dreylin and OT4E are bouncing in and out of the game. They see the dilemma that I have put to them.

I really just don't want them to take the city cheaply. I'm happy being at peace. I want to be able to make them lose as many units as possible taking it. If my force means they don't use the non over river route to use the cav it has been successful. If we end up at war then so be it. It would be nice to let Scooter take the first strike on them, but I have put off things too long.

This will mostly talk about troop placement, but I am seriously in love with shale plants... I'm getting a +120% in every city on the hammers, and do not have really any health issues as I do not have to have coal hooked! Definitely a win. Look at this producing power... I'm overflowing obscene amounts and 1 turning soliders all over. If anything I have too much overflow (yes that is a settler being built in a turn in the cap. It is even managing to run a couple of scientists whilst that happens)

This has taken its toll on my research capabilities. 3rd GNP, despite GA. I think in this hammer heavy game GNP is very variable if builds are occuring. These are pre and post cutting OB with Drey4E. I had hoped that they had not left quite enough to 1t assembly line if I cut borders, but alas I could not stop this. When I ended the turn I did see a few inf built. They can draft in most cities (need size 7 and more than 10% culture in the city, so can't draft DZ cities until he is killed) I would guess they will get the whip out again too once their GA is over and caste isn't needed for the GP they are getting all over the place. But without being able to get factories and power plants I think they will struggle (note they don't have any discounts on the factories, like me/BGN/Scooter all have)

So what do we have? WEST

7 inf/machine gun/2 rifles/1cav. Not in shot 1 galleon in Pind waters with an inf/gren/rifle, can hit his city NT should I wish. He has nothing that can raze the road on the second ring tile that I own with the city ruins on. Using that I can be on the hill next to the city next turn. Kept in reserve 1 city def 2 rifle, and a inf built EOT. Have a couple of frigates and couple of galleons to the north, but these will be hiding from his SOTL and frigate pair he has above the city.

This actually worked out nicely, as I faked him out a bit. He stacked 5 rifles in there with no easy way to transfer them back to the mainland. Now I have everything down on the peninsula, and he can't be sure that the galleons are empty. No way to bomb down defences, although with only 20% shouldn't be too much bother. I also have 4 airships to his 1 out here. Scooter can also watch this too.

East South

He has minimal forces all around here. He is unable to hit my backline newly capped city, and from the Glitch mode tile if he takes the Zom olog city I can hit anywhere up there, or his forces in Honeybees. I will still have 3 rifles to cover that city too. Surprised he didn't raze more of those roads last turn. Thought a lot about moving them up but felt it was worth them getting a healing turn in the city.

East north.

This is where the plan falls down. If I had meant to go for him next turn I should have just declared last turn... I felt good about this being a pressurising move last turn, and really clever. However on typing this, I forgot the fact that he could simply sit units on those tiles and cause the awkward teleporting mechanic... Basically I forgot that the roads would be open for him to use if the DZ city is captured also! That is really stupid of me. Still, not all is lost. He still needs to take the city with a lot of cav units remaining to pull off being completely safe from me. To be honest I'm not 100% sure he will take the city there actually even with all that, but then I found I was able to take out a zepllined inf with cav with surprising ease...

So lets see what awaits me on the next turn then... Held off teching as not 100% sure getting speedy marines will be useful. With the amount of ironclads BGN is spamming, and frigates Pind has I would struggle to get any use out of them without support. Probably will head down the steel route now then, and onto proper air support through to flight... This gets me destroyers, extra hammers with railroad and the movement bonus. Still happy to have grabbed electricity for the commerce boosts. Downside of this is hooking any oil/coal will start to hurt my health in most cities.

[El Grillo]

You'd only need coal to build railroads, right? If you don't plan on building Ironclads, and Shale Plants don't need coal to provide power, would it be worth allocating some Workers to hook it during your turn and unhook it before ending turn?

I can't make heads or tails of lategame war planning, so thanks for your detailed reporting.

Also, sucks about the global warming. Here's the code from CvGame.cpp:

Code:

void CvGame::doTurn()
{
    PROFILE_BEGIN("CvGame::doTurn()");

    int aiShuffle[MAX_PLAYERS];
    int iLoopPlayer;
    int iI;

    // END OF TURN
    CvEventReporter::getInstance().beginGameTurn( getGameTurn() );

    doUpdateCacheOnTurn();

    updateScore();

    doDeals();

    for (iI = 0; iI < MAX_TEAMS; iI++)
    {
        if (GET_TEAM((TeamTypes)iI).isAlive())
        {
            GET_TEAM((TeamTypes)iI).doTurn();
        }
    }

    GC.getMapINLINE().doTurn();

    createBarbarianCities();

    createBarbarianUnits();

    doGlobalWarming();

    doHolyCity();

    doHeadquarters();

    doDiploVote();

    gDLL->getInterfaceIFace()->setEndTurnMessage(false);
    gDLL->getInterfaceIFace()->setHasMovedUnit(false);

    if (getAIAutoPlay() > 0)
    {
        changeAIAutoPlay(-1);

        if (getAIAutoPlay() == 0)
        {
            reviveActivePlayer();
        }
    }

    CvEventReporter::getInstance().endGameTurn(getGameTurn());

    incrementGameTurn();
    incrementElapsedGameTurns();

    if (isMPOption(MPOPTION_SIMULTANEOUS_TURNS))
    {
        shuffleArray(aiShuffle, MAX_PLAYERS, getSorenRand());

        for (iI = 0; iI < MAX_PLAYERS; iI++)
        {
            iLoopPlayer = aiShuffle[iI];

            if (GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iLoopPlayer).isAlive())
            {
                GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iLoopPlayer).setTurnActive(true);
            }
        }
    }
    else if (isSimultaneousTeamTurns())
    {
        for (iI = 0; iI < MAX_TEAMS; iI++)
        {
            CvTeam& kTeam = GET_TEAM((TeamTypes)iI);
            if (kTeam.isAlive())
            {
                kTeam.setTurnActive(true);
                FAssert(getNumGameTurnActive() == kTeam.getAliveCount());
/*************************************************************************************************/
/* UNOFFICIAL_PATCH                       06/10/10                       snarko & jdog5000       */
/*                                                                                               */
/* Bugfix                                                                                        */
/*************************************************************************************************/
/* original bts code
            }

            break;
*/
                // Break only after first found alive player
                break;
            }
/*************************************************************************************************/
/* UNOFFICIAL_PATCH                         END                                                  */
/*************************************************************************************************/
        }
    }
    else
    {
        for (iI = 0; iI < MAX_PLAYERS; iI++)
        {
            if (GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iI).isAlive())
            {
                if (isPbem() && GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iI).isHuman())
                {
                    if (iI == getActivePlayer())
                    {
                        // Nobody else left alive
                        GC.getInitCore().setType(GAME_HOTSEAT_NEW);
                        GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iI).setTurnActive(true);
                    }
                    else if (!getPbemTurnSent())
                    {
                        gDLL->sendPbemTurn((PlayerTypes)iI);
                    }
                }
                else
                {
                    GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iI).setTurnActive(true);
                    FAssert(getNumGameTurnActive() == 1);
                }

                break;
            }
        }
    }

    testVictory();

    gDLL->getEngineIFace()->SetDirty(GlobePartialTexture_DIRTY_BIT, true);
    gDLL->getEngineIFace()->DoTurn();

    PROFILE_END();

    stopProfilingDLL();

    gDLL->getEngineIFace()->AutoSave();
}

[s]It looks like global warming happens before production (but after barbarian spawns, apparently).[s]

EDIT: I was wrong, it happens after production - see post 189.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

You'd only need coal to build railroads, right? If you don't plan on building Ironclads, and Shale Plants don't need coal to provide power, would it be worth allocating some Workers to hook it during your turn and unhook it before ending turn?

I can't make heads or tails of lategame war planning, so thanks for your detailed reporting.

Also, sucks about the global warming. Here's the code from CvGame.cpp:

Code:

void CvGame::doTurn()
{
    PROFILE_BEGIN("CvGame::doTurn()");

    int aiShuffle[MAX_PLAYERS];
    int iLoopPlayer;
    int iI;

    // END OF TURN
    CvEventReporter::getInstance().beginGameTurn( getGameTurn() );

    doUpdateCacheOnTurn();

    updateScore();

    doDeals();

    for (iI = 0; iI < MAX_TEAMS; iI++)
    {
        if (GET_TEAM((TeamTypes)iI).isAlive())
        {
            GET_TEAM((TeamTypes)iI).doTurn();
        }
    }

    GC.getMapINLINE().doTurn();

    createBarbarianCities();

    createBarbarianUnits();

    doGlobalWarming();

    doHolyCity();

    doHeadquarters();

    doDiploVote();

    gDLL->getInterfaceIFace()->setEndTurnMessage(false);
    gDLL->getInterfaceIFace()->setHasMovedUnit(false);

    if (getAIAutoPlay() > 0)
    {
        changeAIAutoPlay(-1);

        if (getAIAutoPlay() == 0)
        {
            reviveActivePlayer();
        }
    }

    CvEventReporter::getInstance().endGameTurn(getGameTurn());

    incrementGameTurn();
    incrementElapsedGameTurns();

    if (isMPOption(MPOPTION_SIMULTANEOUS_TURNS))
    {
        shuffleArray(aiShuffle, MAX_PLAYERS, getSorenRand());

        for (iI = 0; iI < MAX_PLAYERS; iI++)
        {
            iLoopPlayer = aiShuffle[iI];

            if (GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iLoopPlayer).isAlive())
            {
                GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iLoopPlayer).setTurnActive(true);
            }
        }
    }
    else if (isSimultaneousTeamTurns())
    {
        for (iI = 0; iI < MAX_TEAMS; iI++)
        {
            CvTeam& kTeam = GET_TEAM((TeamTypes)iI);
            if (kTeam.isAlive())
            {
                kTeam.setTurnActive(true);
                FAssert(getNumGameTurnActive() == kTeam.getAliveCount());
/*************************************************************************************************/
/* UNOFFICIAL_PATCH                       06/10/10                       snarko & jdog5000       */
/*                                                                                               */
/* Bugfix                                                                                        */
/*************************************************************************************************/
/* original bts code
            }

            break;
*/
                // Break only after first found alive player
                break;
            }
/*************************************************************************************************/
/* UNOFFICIAL_PATCH                         END                                                  */
/*************************************************************************************************/
        }
    }
    else
    {
        for (iI = 0; iI < MAX_PLAYERS; iI++)
        {
            if (GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iI).isAlive())
            {
                if (isPbem() && GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iI).isHuman())
                {
                    if (iI == getActivePlayer())
                    {
                        // Nobody else left alive
                        GC.getInitCore().setType(GAME_HOTSEAT_NEW);
                        GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iI).setTurnActive(true);
                    }
                    else if (!getPbemTurnSent())
                    {
                        gDLL->sendPbemTurn((PlayerTypes)iI);
                    }
                }
                else
                {
                    GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iI).setTurnActive(true);
                    FAssert(getNumGameTurnActive() == 1);
                }

                break;
            }
        }
    }

    testVictory();

    gDLL->getEngineIFace()->SetDirty(GlobePartialTexture_DIRTY_BIT, true);
    gDLL->getEngineIFace()->DoTurn();

    PROFILE_END();

    stopProfilingDLL();

    gDLL->getEngineIFace()->AutoSave();
}

It looks like global warming happens before production (but after barbarian spawns, apparently).

That's an interesting idea. Issue is that it is a good tile, and I would tie down 7 workers 3 to mine, 4 to re workshop... That's like half the workforce. Plus oil allows railroads too.

The other thing is IW. I don't know whether it is worth it currently. I would be getting multiple unhealthy cities.

If GW truly happens pre production... FML. That's horrible!

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

I haven't logged in yet but...



He's spooked also no moves on DZ, or he didn't go for it. Interesting.

[El Grillo]

Haha, that I didn't know about oil enabling railroads or about the Ironworks using coal just says it all about my unfamiliarity with the lategame.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Haha, that I didn't know about oil enabling railroads or about the Ironworks using coal just says it all about my unfamiliarity with the lategame.

IW only 50% effective without coal, not 100%. Coal wouldn't be the catastrophe I was thinking, but would push a couple of cities unhealthy and then be a proper issue when I get oil online.

Oil giving railroads was a BTS addition. Not in vanilla.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Right... Drey4E did not declare. Movements towards me whilst keeping zoth omagog in range. Lots of whips and a few upgrades. No where near enough time to do much now.

Either to just do it like Nike, or hold him out of position for Scooter...

[El Grillo]

Update on the global warming question - I was wrong, production is actually handled in GET_TEAM((TeamTypes)iI).doTurn(), before global warming. I tested this in worldbuilder, and the results support this (also, if you make a 5x5 map, things get pretty trippy):

Before GW:



After GW (I detonated a half-dozen ICBMs to up the chances):



Note that the city put in the pre-GW 84h, despite only making 80h after GW. Good news, shouldn't cause any headaches wrt things slated to finish in the queue.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Update on the global warming question - I was wrong, production is actually handled in GET_TEAM((TeamTypes)iI).doTurn(), before global warming. I tested this in worldbuilder, and the results support this (also, if you make a 5x5 map, things get pretty trippy):

Before GW:



After GW (I detonated a half-dozen ICBMs to up the chances):



Note that the city put in the pre-GW 84h, despite only making 80h after GW.

Ah that's a relief. I want to terraform like in civ 2 though!

And thanks. I don't know how to do all that kinda stuff