[Spoilers] Suboptimal - Welcome to the Tlachtli of Blunders!

[suboptimal]

Now What?
(Verbosity Warning a/k/a challenging Sulla & CMF to a post length duel    )

uh, excuse you, I had an update that was three words long once. 

I'm not even close to as bad as our esteemed Roman dictator. u_u

Sulla dropped a post this morning that was 3130 words (Modo apparently counted) in his PBEM 7 thread.  I concede defeat in this matter.  

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

Now What?
(Verbosity Warning a/k/a challenging Sulla & CMF to a post length duel    )

uh, excuse you, I had an update that was three words long once. 

I'm not even close to as bad as our esteemed Roman dictator. u_u

Sulla dropped a post this morning that was 3130 words (Modo apparently counted) in his PBEM 7 thread.  I concede defeat in this matter.  

I can't wait to read another Sullla thread, although I suspect I come off rather poorly in that one. I just hope Sullla isn't too harsh on me when he does his end-of-game review, it was my first multiplayer game and I already made lots of mistakes to learn from in that one (so I can move on to new, more exciting mistakes!). 

Thanks for making mistakes, too, suboptimal, and plastering them up for everyone to see. When I started doing my own reports, your example was actually foremost in my mind of continuing to document everything, even when screwing up. Glad to see you're in a dominant position in this game.

[suboptimal]

I can't wait to read another Sullla thread, although I suspect I come off rather poorly in that one. I just hope Sullla isn't too harsh on me when he does his end-of-game review, it was my first multiplayer game and I already made lots of mistakes to learn from in that one (so I can move on to new, more exciting mistakes!). 

Thanks for making mistakes, too, suboptimal, and plastering them up for everyone to see. When I started doing my own reports, your example was actually foremost in my mind of continuing to document everything, even when screwing up. Glad to see you're in a dominant position in this game.

Thanks!  I have been enjoying your PBEM 7 reports and look forward to your PBEM 8 reporting once the game ends.

I've found that thorough documentation helps me figure out "what was I thinking" when things go pear shaped later on.  I do tend to be present tense in the reporting, only because I've got my master report document open at the same time I'm playing and will make a few moves, document and continue.  For some reason that works for me (must be my inner scientist at work).

Sulla left me a very informative post in the PBEM 6 lurker thread and I think I'm applying the information, if a bit sloppy.  His posts are generally very informative in terms of game play, that's for sure.

[TheArchduke]

Now What?
(Verbosity Warning a/k/a challenging Sulla & CMF to a post length duel    )

uh, excuse you, I had an update that was three words long once. 

I'm not even close to as bad as our esteemed Roman dictator. u_u

His amount of text and detail is scary. I try to compensate with the amount of screenies, but that is just lazy.

@suboptimal

A DoF? I would plain kill that scout.

[suboptimal]

I had some free time to kill tonight and with only two opponents to look at I'd try to break down what I'm up against a little bit more to see what information I can glean....here goes....something.

Japper

Science: 11.9 per turn
Culture: 11.3 per turn
Population: 11
Districts: 1 Campus
Faith: 1
Domestic Tourists: 4

Backing out population and the palace from science and culture he's got 2.2 and 7.0 that is "unaccounted" for.  Take away his resources (1 iron) he's down to 1.2 and 7.0.  With 1 point of science left that's probably coming from his Campus at +1 adjacency.  It also means if there's a scientific city state over there he hasn't put an envoy into it.  With 7 left over he's probably got two monuments, a finder's envoy in a cultural city-state and an unconnected luxury he's working (or amenity surplus).  His lone point of faith is from dyes.

Based on his tourism numbers he's accumulated somewhere between 400 and 500 total culture between boosts and per turn collection.  My guess here is that he doesn't have some of the inspirations that I do (Military Training and Feudalism alone are worth two tourists at 197.5 culture), which could slow him down as he makes his way through the tree. 

As a comparison I currently have 8 domestic tourists for 800-900 accumulated culture.  My inspirations are worth 342.5 culture,  putting me at....5 tourists.  I'm willing to make the inference that based on this and his military strength he's got fewer than 8 military units (and one is in my territory).

rho21

Science: 17.8 per turn
Culture: 5.2 per turn ( )
Population: 10
Districts: 1 Campus
Faith: 3.1
Domestic Tourists: 5

His culture is coming entirely from population (3), palace (1) and his marble resource. Science is another matter.  7 from population, 2 from the palace and 2 from connected iron leaves 6 unaccounted for. Two from a finder's envoy in a city state brings the total to 13 (he jumped up 2 science between Turns 3 and 6 according to CQUI) leaves 4 leftover.  Going back through my screenshots I see that on my Turn 36 he was at 8 science (CQUI, again) and on Turn 37 he jumped to 12.  He completed his Campus on Turn 36 so he's got a +4 adjacency somewhere.  


rho21's tourist count puts him between 500 and 600 accumulated culture.  If I back out all the ancient civics (340) and the inspiration for Politicial Philosophy (55) it gives him 395.  If I add in the inspiration for Mercenaries (he most likely has more than 8 military units) that puts him up at 485.  He hasn't researched construction (we're all in the column of the tech tree with Horseback Riding in it) nor does he have 6 farms (the boost would put him at 6 tourists).  There are no wonders built nor religions founded and he's only got one Campus, so my best guess is that he and Japper, at some point in the past, had some sort of war in which Japper declared on him.

rho21's faith output is also telling - he's got dyes hooked up for 1.  With no holy sites he's probably found a religious city-state.

So, What Did I Learn?

- I probably outnumber Japper in military units by at least 2:1
- rho21 found a sweet Campus location
- Of the three unmet city-states there's probably one scientific, one cultural and one religious.  Two are closer to rho21 than to Japper.
- rho21 is going to start to fall behind despite his high science rate because of his poor cultural output.
- the other continent has jade, marble, dyes and truffles (Brussels has that hooked up). 
- If my supposition about a previous skirmish is correct the DoF is indicative of a brewing 2v1.  Need to be on my toes here.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

Oh, I thought of this and wanted to post it before I walked out the door.

n.b: I am wrong about every mechanics question I ever venture to answer, so, y'know, grain of salt, but -

Commercial Hubs don't get double adjacency from 2 rivers. It's a toggle - Next to at least 1 river: Y/N. At least, that's what the often-wrong wiki claims. Archduke or Emperor, maybe you guys know, is Emperor K getting double adjacency from his tundra CHs in PBEM7?

[suboptimal]

Oh, I thought of this and wanted to post it before I walked out the door.

n.b: I am wrong about every mechanics question I ever venture to answer, so, y'know, grain of salt, but -

Commercial Hubs don't get double adjacency from 2 rivers. It's a toggle - Next to at least 1 river: Y/N. At least, that's what the often-wrong wiki claims. Archduke or Emperor, maybe you guys know, is Emperor K getting double adjacency from his tundra CHs in PBEM7?

Thanks for the potential confirmation!  There continues to be some confusion at CFC.  I have vague recollections playing a France game single player and actually getting a +4 Commercial Hub between two separate rivers.  Part of the issue, I think, is being able to reliably get maps that have two seperate rivers border the same hex in order to test.  We'll find out soon enough.

[suboptimal]

Turn 63

Open the save to find that Brussels is becoming a very busy place:



The city-state must have gone on a unit spree.  Japper’s also shown up with an archer.  This calls for a bit of a retreat.  A bit further northwest I’ve lost sight of Japper’s scout, though the barbarian warrior looks to have moved off in his direction as I’ve lost sight of it as well.  A couple of moves later and I’ve found the scout(it's 1 tile SW of its position in the T62 screen shot).  I continue positioning units to bottle him up with the intent of declaring if I can do so successfully. A capture would be a bonus but not the objective.  I do move the slinger back into Cant’s territory and upgrade it into an archer, just in case.  

In the former Egypt I harvest a stone into the settler at How.  The GUI indicates two turns left.  Hmmm...need to revisit my micro there – the cost for settlers hasn’t gone up yet.  I’ll hold it with “one turn” left next turn, start a builder and then resume construction when Cant finishes its settler on Turn 67.  Up at Oddfellows the spearman attacked the archer.  It retreats to the city and takes the promotion (Volley) and the Eagle Warrior moves into cleanup position.  

In the south units continue to reposition for the attack on Preslav.  The battering ram has formed up with the Eagle Warrior and the other units are on their way over (with a quick healing stop for the Eagle Warrior).  

Horseback Riding completed and I start Engineering.  Interestingly Japper’s science dropped by two this turn. 

[suboptimal]

OK...looked at the timing of the settlers getting completed, along with potential overflow chops and walls.  City #5 can't produce walls in any sort of reasonable time frame (it'd take until Turn 80 or so), but Cant Get There From Here can get them up quickly.  Here goes the ETAs on settlers, builders walls and Campus districts.  These only use chops to complete settlers and overflow into other builds.  They don't use chops midway through production to speed things along.

Turn 67: Settler (Cant, 140) -> City #5
Turn 68: Campus (Cant)
Turn 68: Builder (Welcome) -> City #5
Turn 69: Settler (Oddfellows, 170) -> City #4
Turn 70: Builder (Cant) -> City #5
Turn 71: Walls (Cant)
Turn 74: Settler (Begin, 200) -> City #2
Turn 75: Builder (Oddfellows) -> City #2
Turn 76: Settler (How, 230) -> ?
Turn 77: Campus (How)

Given the fact that my chop at How gives me the possibility to finish a settler for next turn (because my planning had this settler at a cost of 200 ) I’ve decided to see how much shuffling I’d need to do if I completed it. Turns out not much and I get a “better” result:

Turn 65: Settler (How) → City #5
Turn 66: Monument (Harborcoat)
Turn 68: Settler (Cant) → City #4
Turn 69: Campus (Cant), Water Mill (Find)
Turn 70: Eagle Warrior (How, for overflow into Campus), City #5 Settles
Turn 71: Settler (Oddfellows) → City #3, Walls (How), Builder (Cant)
Turn 72: Settler (Begin) → City #2
Turn 77: Campus (How)
Turn 78: Walls (Cant)

Cant’s walls could be up on Turn 72 if I wanted to use a non-boosted chop with the builder, but I’d only do that if I had a situation on my hands. Its settler may also take the long way around or pick up an escort along the way if I can't catch Japper's scout.

Welcome will start builders this turn, Harborcoat will finish its monument and switch to galleys and Find will finish the Water Mill and then get out its own builder.

[suboptimal]

Turn 64

For some reason I find myself having some trepidation when opening the saves now that I’ve met both opponents.  Guess it’s because the theoretical possibility of a 2v1 can now be realized whereas before it was only rho21 who could declare.  I guess that’s part of the reason I want to kill Japper’s scout.  Anyway, onwards with the turn...

Open the save to this:



Hanging Gardens?  Wut?   I also see that Japper’s archer has advanced, as has his scout.  Japper has settled a city with the attendant increases in culture and science.  rho21 has his faith go down by two.  If there’s a religious city-state out there I think he’s declared war on it.  Japper also appears to be at negative income.  He had 20 and no GPT available last turn; this turn he’s got 16 and no GPT available.  Whoops.  While checking his gold total I also notice that he no longer has iron.  I doubt he traded it to rho21, since he’s already got two, so it must have been pillaged by...something.  Double whoops.  Not that he needs it, mind you.

Up in the northwest the barbarian spearman has retreated.  How The West Was Won has grown in population, Welcome and Find will grow next turn and Begin and Cant will follow a couple turns later.  The scout build in Welcome is complete as well.  Having surveyed my empire and liking what I see, it’s time to move units.

Reposition both builders in the south and get the eastern Eagle Warrior into my territory to heal.  I’ll chop out the archer on Turn 66 and overflow into the next Settler there.  Other units sit tight.  Jumping up north the new scout moves out and Welcome starts a builder.  At Oddfellows I advance the Eagle Warrior and the archer towards the spearman.  Archer shoots and rolls poorly, so the Eagle Warrior needs to finish the job instead of advancing on the camp.  At Cant I quarry the gypsum and move the citizen to there from the hill I’m chopping in two turns – production neutral and gold positive.  The two northern Eagle Warriors by Pearl Lake continue to fogbust.   Now, about Japper…

First, the scout:



I want to trap and kill this thing.  If I bring the Eagle Warrior down to the stone next to the scout, declare war and shoot it with my archer I’ll have it trapped and dead.  It won’t be able to go north or west (ZoC by both my unit and the barbarian), southwest is towards the archer, which would kill it next turn.  The only escape route is east to the cattle, where it’d get stuck at the river and die.  Just to close this trap I bring the both archers at How SE one tile onto the hills.  The scout moves onto the hill so it can’t be attacked by the barbarian but still block a potential escape path.  They’ll be able to shoot at anything that moves from that position.  I bring the Eagle Warrior  down and...pause to look at the other situation before declaring war.



Over here I’ve got a tortoise-promoted Eagle Warrior and an unpromoted archer against Japper’s archer and three Belgian units.  Mind you, the Belgian archer DID NOT shoot  at my unit during the interturn.  There are two things working for me here.  First, the AI just LOVES to target ranged units over melee so I expect the Belgians to move on my archer.  Second, my archer can advance and shoot Japper’s archer and not be threatened by any of the city-state units.  This would let my Eagle Warrior take Japper’s archer and advance into jungle which would give my Eagle Warrior a strength of about 41 against the archer and 35 against the warriors.  I can handle that.  Archer advances and I, once again, declare war, this time against Japper.  This will be entirely a “poach and wound” skirmish.  I have no intention of advancing further east of my current position.  I’ll take out these two units and then set up defensive fronts at Pearl Lake and the passes at Cant.

War declared, I shoot the scout and then realize my error.  The archer can’t shoot over the hill that the Eagle Warrior is on and has no line of sight to any unit.   I move the archer northeast and the Eagle Warrior goes onto the jungle hill NW of Japper’s archer.  From this position the Eagle Warrior gets +6 for terrain so Japper, if he shoots, would be shooting at a CS 50 Eagle Warrior.  It also gets a support bonus from the archer in the event the city-state warriors advance.  Japper’s archer can escape to the southeast to fight another day if he so chooses.  That might work out better anyway, as it’ll communicate (maybe) that this was a scout-kill operation.  If he stays put I’ll attack.  If the city-state units advance I’ll pull back towards the river, bring down another Eagle Warrior from Pearl Lake and clear this place out. One archer shot + one Eagle Warrior attack will kill any unit that's down here.

Gifts for the Tlatoani

Builders Captured: 8
Cost to Build: 512
Improvements Made: 12
District Boosts: 15.6
Chops: 195 , 36
Craftsmanship Inspiration, Irrigation, Masonry, Wheel, and Iron Working Eurekas (20, 165)