(October 14th, 2020, 07:06)Kaiser Wrote: I am not sure why you have me in the already decided "commodore" camp there. I switched very late, even inconsequentially as someone (Rowain?) voted before me to change the tally from a good to a strong Commodore lead. I was overanalyzing that day and quickly concluded my preferred vote to be Adrien who already had lost traction again when I posted.
It would be great to see you answering to my questions at some point!
As I said, your vote was late and inconsequential. Rowain is not colored with the same brush because he made it clear that he wanted to lynch Commodore all day long. Rowain always moves his vote around a lot for pressure but usually you know where he wants to end up.
I have stated the reasons I think you are suspicious before Kaiser. I am dubious on your role claim. I see that your posts sow a lot of confusion and have a lot of fanciful theories. And your voting history is suspect. Mostly, its a vibe I get from you, which generally speaking, is enough for me to vote someone.
Thanks for getting back.
Bolding mine, that is no what you said, here is the quote from the Jabbz passage
Quote:He was in the "already decided" pile-on on Commodore on D2 with GES and Kaiser
So your reasons voting me are:
a. dubious role claim
b. post sowing confusion
c. fanciful theories
d. voting history
e. But mostly its a vibe
Maybe I can help you figuring out that I am town.
a. Did Bob's role reveal change anything about my role claim in your perspective?
b+c. I am sorry if my posts do not help you, they help me figuring out my thoughts and what might be happening in the game. I can see that people would find them confusing, as I do not know the answers. I, ultimately, hope though that my posts help people thinking about the game.
d. Did you already lay this out somewhere? I mean, sure I wasted Day2 with overdocumenting and resting way too long on Rowain without participating properly to end up with a rushed analysis and inconsequential vote at the end. But I did help getting thrawn on Day1, I did not participate in the mis-lynch of Lewwyn. Am I really the person with the worst voting history here (honest question, I did not compare all living players yet)
e. Above is anyways irrelevant as it has been a vibe? This seems pretty vague, especially as it sounds like this is the most important of your motivations to vote for me, however it is also the easiest to shrug off later
I currently have one thing in favor of you, I can only explain you being scum with Meiz also being scum, which I fear but doubt.
A: Not really. I mean we know that scum have the ability to eliminate a role reveal. I just find the whole thing dubious.
B/C: I don't mean to insult you, just that I'm suspicious of people who make very long posts and lots of conspiracy theories in WW games.
D: We all can read the votes however we want. I give no credit nor no demerits for the thrawn lynch. It is no doubt a very good thing that he died on day 1. But it also doesn't tell us anything about the voters alignment. Anyone who votes late on a target gets less credit than those who push. Scum often straggle on late to look good. And as we know, both remaining scum were on Commodore. Day 3, we lynched a villager, but that also doesn't tell us anything, because we mislynch villagers all the time. Day 4, you were not on the scum. Hence, your voting history is suspect. It in and of itself does not make you scum, but it does mean your voting history doesn't give you any town cookies.
E: I've caught way more scum off tone reads than any other method. Doesn't work for everyone, doesn't even work for me all the time, but its the best I've got. Obviously as we get later in the game there's a whole meta to consider and you can't use any one method exclusively.
I've got some dirt on my shoulder, can you brush it off for me?
I have seen Alhambram posted, but will only be able to read it tomorrow.
Here is something I made to get a clearer overview for myself, it is limited to the EoD tallies.
Please note that this does not cover last 2nd switches (like for example Gaspar, Novice Commodore -> Pindicator Day1 or Kaiser Adrien -> Commodore Day2)
(October 15th, 2020, 16:52)Alhambram Wrote: While rereading end of night 3 and start of day 4, maybe I am mistaken but I might notice some strange thing here GES's post #1383 and Jabbz's post #1399:
(October 9th, 2020, 11:00)Gold Ergo Sum Wrote:
Omar wanted to share a few of his musings in case he not around after tonight.
Omar tracked Bee-Boy. Omar figure if he successfully bodyguards and dies, we can confirm a villager based on his target. Also, Omar not sure how order of operations work, but if Jabbz is who he says, I expect he beholds Omar, and so maybe village gets the information even if Omar gets got tonight.
Omar did not track yesterday for a few reasons. First, limited charges on an ability that seems to increase in power as targets diminish. Two, Omar trying to draw a nightkill on himself. Omar been out of this here game for a long time and so Omar a bit lacking in baselines to read from. Omar figure if he can draw a night kill, village would be better off overall than if some of the better players go down. Additionally, Omar just lacks the time and inclination to "Meiz his ass off," and due to 9-5 reasons, that is about to get a lot worse. If late information affects voting in the future, lets just say Omar often got meetings with lovely men and women in black robes that start a half-hour before deadline. Day at a time if Omar can make his presence heard at crunch time.
But at this point, we on a short clock, with only one more guaranteed night after this one to track before the game ends if Omar's arithmetic square, so at this point, better smoke them Newpo's while you got 'em.
It looks like today likely to be a referendum on Doc. Omar no Mozart. He don't got that perfect pitch like some players here think they do. But while Omar lacks that tonal proficiency, and a baseline to really answer a hypothesis, Omar thinks he is able to posit some decent queries.
1) Let's assume Bee-Boy village. If Doc a villain, would he have gone that hard at him on D1? It seems Q was probably seen as village by the villains. Would Doc draw that much unnecessary attention? If Bee-boy is a villain, Doc's move seems even more unlikely. Someone with a better sense of baseline Doc should chime in here. Omar asked yesterday if a villain Weeb Fox kills Duo Puppet and bright lights his misread, but no one who could make that read seemed to really address it.
2) Would Doc bus Flip that hard D2? This one seems probable to Omar that he might, but others can probably say if Doc arrogant enough to think he and three additional villains could silver tongue a reprieve instead.
3) When Omar assumed Weeb Fox was a villain, it sure looked like Doc and Weeb Fox were going at each other when Weeb Fox was not a threat, but not when Weeb Fox was under the gun, as a misdirect. But now that Weeb Fox village, Omar has not had a clear reinterp come yet. Would villain Doc intentionally pick a scrap with Weeb Fox who was looking likely to be mislynched?
4) Omar still remembers that Flip/Doc back-to-back on Skelly ("Bee-Boy") early D1. A villain attempt to start a train that never left the station on a power player?
5) Omar's notes show that Doc was the leading vote getter at post 116, with four votes. A close read of the votes before and after could be useful.
Omar voted Doc D1, but this is mainly because Omar woke up to an impossible glut of new posts, never caught up, and felt more comfortable leaving it there than joining in on a fast moving situation without any real understanding. But Omar did have his vote there initially for a reason. Overall, Omar think Doc more shady than average this game, but then again, Omar was convinced on Swanson and Weeb Fox too. Batting average feel closer to Bob Uecker than Ted Williams right now. Also, not sure why Omar favoring baseball metaphors. Omar hates baseball. Following the Orioles more of a downer than heroin.
Jabbz is either impersonating a drowning villager or is a drowning villager. Omar not sure. If Jabbz does not behold Omar tonight, that would set off alarms for Omar, given he claims to understand his role now. If he does behold Omar, then I would tend to think he is village, because that role seems fairly useless for a villain. That said, Skelly and others say trying to read the game through meta-analysis like that a fool's errand.
Robot has some odd votes as I already pointed out. Voted Q D1 after saying he thought Q was less suspicious. Voted Swanson D2 when it was clear that train was going nowhere, then a useless late switch onto Flip. Plus he mentioned that Weeb Fox started the Q train in 537, even though Robot was already asking questions about Q before Weeb Fox's crusade, and votes were already on Q. Given Robot has made pretty detailed observations when he decides to, this seems maybe a little shady. Robot's role claim could be true, but is conveniently unverifiable.
Speaking of odd votes, Jerry! voted for Simp D1, Swanson D2, and Bee-Boy D3. That's three for three voting the lowest vote getter. This appears to be time-related potentially. Omar got no clue where Jerry! walks the streets. Omar not one to call someone out for availability, but again, will leave it to those with baseline reads on Jerry! if his activity alone is a tell one way or the other. All things being equal though, Jerry! the last of you players at all entertaining Omar, so Omar would probably tiebreak with a reprieve just so he don't die of boredom reading this thread if it was a close call.
Omar notice CIA really went full spook D3. This was definitely a change in behavior. But Omar thinks this is likely due to the lynch being fairly obvious, and the thread being cluttered up with Weeb Fox rants, most of which were against Kardashian, who flipped village, along with flailing at Omar, Simp, Robot, Doc, Bee-Boy and probably a few others Omar forgot. Omar admits he will need the upcoming weekend to truly catch up on D3 because he was not that engaged in the details either.
Also worth noting that best as Omar can recall, only CIA, Doc, and Jerry! have not claimed. No clue if that means anything at all.
No one expects to die an old man in this here game, so if Omar passes, do not fret. Just make them Barksdales pay.
(October 9th, 2020, 11:29)Jabbz Wrote: I believe I can safely confirm Omar's abilities, and my own. "Bee-boy" targeted Rowain. I dont know the likelihood of scum having a tracker, or of any other abilities giving information along those lines. To me however, that appears to clear Omar. Less certain about Pindicator, because we received no information on what his abilities were.
Thank you Omar. I thought long and hard, but had decided not to use my ability tonight. Catching your post last minute was a boon.
Ok, If I am mistaken, correct me:
Jabbz claim that he did use up his last beholder charge here after catching out GES's post lastminute and he claims that he diid confirm GES's and his own power.
But notice time that GES posted: 18:00 (16:00 UTC, my clock is running 2 hours later then UTC time)
And the rule 2 of WW states: Days and nights end at 1100 CDT/1600 UTC. The forum clock is used as the official clock. Votes and actions posted at xx:59 count, votes and actions posted at xx:00 do not.
So GES posts at 18:00 and Jabbz said that he did action because he did read GES's post and used up his 3rd action to confirm both his and GES's role legitimacy. But how can Jabbz's action be valid because according rules he would be too late with his action already.
I sent in the PM. Brick was late, and let it go through. Not that difficult to figure out.
My feelings from yesterday have not changed much for anyone other than sunrise and meiz. I still find the EOD play by Isaac to be highly suspect, and it's still the best lead I have. I'm also inclined to give Rowain's EOD vote on him a decent amount of credit. Given the unsurprising Rowain reveal, I feel a bit better about Meiz's play, based largely on his interaction with Rowain. Based on that and his valid question on what he would gain as scum from the lost ability event, I'm inclined to put him rather solidly in my town list.
I'll be keeping an open mind, but as things stand I'm willing to lynch isaac, and unwilling to lynch Meiz. I'm liking the other member of the neighbor less, purely based on meta reasons, and everyone else is pretty much meh for me.
So we are looking at some long odds here. There is a 1/3 chance we lynch a villain today, and a 1/4 chance we lynch a villain tomorrow, and we have to get both right. That works out to an 8.25% chance to win based on random chance. Not great.
All game, looking at villain-team pairings seemed like a fool's errand to Omar. But now, that is the only way to win.
So based on that, Omar thought long and hard on every possible combination of villains and compared that to what happened on D4 and D5 to come up with the most likely possible villain combos. I mainly did that because one, it gets harder to hide as the game goes along. And two, five of us made the exact same votes on D2 and D3, so that makes it a little trickier to glean as much from voting analysis, which is where Omar prefers to rest his head over more intangible factors.
Omar also prefers to believe players make rational plays. Sure, Omar could imagine super tricky suboptimal plays that might work--but with odds this long, I would prefer to vote based on what seems most likely. On that basis, looking at D4, I have a hard time seeing Skelly as a villain. If Skelly is a villain, why start a bus on Jerry! when he could have just stayed on Robot? If a villager was lynched D4, quick math says the village had a mere 3.25% chance based on random chance to win (3/8 x 1/3 x 1/4), whereas with Jerry! lynched instead of a villager, that jumped to 15.7% if my dusty statistics skills are correct. That means the lynch of Jerry! led to a five fold increase in the village's chances to win. So why do it if Skelly is a villain? The only answer would be Robot and Skelly are both villains and Jerry! was deemed expendable--and an easy way to gain Skelly max town cred. Is that possible? Sure. There was all the weirdness involving the role loss and Robot's wink-wink on his power usage, and Skelly certainly defended Robot pretty hard that day. So that seems possible. But if Jerry!, Skelly, and Robot were all villains, why not go after Doc who had a lot of heat on D3 as a new lynch target, or Jabbz who has been imminently lynchable all game based on countless oddities, rather than bussing Jerry!? Omar just has a hard time seeing this play made by a villain Skelly, even though both Skelly and Robot being on the block would provide at least some explanation for the way it played out. D5 looks very plausible for that combo, with Skelly using his village cred to get a mislynch on a difficult to lynch Talking Dog, and Robot going after Doc so they were not easily associated with one another, but Omar still thinks that is less likely than other alternatives--and we only have one shot to get the exact pair correct.
For the same reason, I find it hard to believe that Doc is a villain. Letting Bob die would be a huge misplay and if Doc is a villain, it did not have to happen. He could have just voted Skelly, and given that Bee-Boy said "I'm voting Skelly until one of us is dead" in post #1,460, Doc could have been pretty sure that Skelly was going to die in a tiebreak even if Talking Dog voted for Jerry!.
So if you two are some kind of uber-villain team, Skelly and Doc, I tip my hat because I would rather place my vote on a more logical assumption than assuming you two misplayed that badly. If Doc is a villain, it would make the most sense with Simp or Robot, because I think Jabbz would have jumped on Talking Dog way earlier to ensure the tiebreak lynched Talking Dog, since if Omar followed Old Tea Man onto Doc before Jabbz voted, Doc would have died.
The way D4/D5 make the most sense to Omar would be a Robot/Simp/(Bob) combo.
I suspect Bob throws out the first vote on Robot without much apparent reason that would gain him village-cred if Robot ever goes down. I doubt he figured that it would marshall any support since Jerry! was not exactly a leader of men in this game and Jerry! could always change it later if need be. Neither Simp nor Robot vote Skelly until two other votes had fallen there. At this point, Robot is starting to look in real danger, so Simp and Robot go back-to-back votes on Skelly, despite both previously expressing general town leans. Simp had Skelly as a town lean in post #1,483 and then turns around and votes him three posts later at #1,486. Robot even called Skelly his most town along with Talking Dog (see post #1,379). When the train starts on Jerry! late in the day, Robot and Simp would not want to bus him when it looks like Skelly could still go down on tiebreaks given Bee-Boy's blood oath against Skelly. This would explain Simp's post about how bussable Jerry! looked, as they know if Jerry! goes down, everyone on Skelly will get extra scrutiny. Then D5, if they are the two villains, the battle is between two villagers, so they each jump on one or the other for respective cover, since it does not matter who goes down. Prior to that point, Simp seemed to strongly feel that Talking Dog was a villager. Talking Dog noted that it seems like Simp was "activated" like a Manchurian candidate or something. Omar feels it is at least possible that Simp quit the thread for the day because he felt bad about going after his previously friendly neighbor so aggressively.
I think that the Robot/Simp combo also fits D1-3 reasonably well.
Robot has a hard time deciding who to vote for between Bee-Boy and Q since he thinks both will flip town. After two straight posts #286/288 where he indicates reduced suspicion on Q, he votes Q anyway in #331, after expressing doubts about the case in the prior paragraph (and downplaying the case against Flip). Omar also thinks it is strange that he has three village reads and ten villain reads (notably Flip was not a villain read) in his summary post even though at that time, the ratio of village-to-villain would be nearly exactly reversed. On D2, Robot makes that odd vote on Old Tea Man, then a vote on Swanson after that train is clearly not going anywhere, as if he is trying to avoid mislynching a known town in Duo Puppet if he does not have to, but also giving himself the ability to vote Duo Puppet if Jabbz or myself vote Duo Puppet (since it was 6-5 at the time he had to have started drafting the post voting Swanson), and thus save Flip. He appears to make the Swanson vote in a cross-post with Jabbz moving onto Flip, so he would still think it is 6-5. Then at the eleventh hour Robot switches onto Flip when it is clear he cannot be saved. I would read D3 as Robot knows Weeb Fox will flip town and wants to stay as far away from the mislynch as possible.
Simp votes no lynch on D1. Everyone thought that was odd at the time but just let it pass. Then he makes the exact same vote as Jabbz, Omar, Doc, and Skelly on D2 and D3, so it is hard to gain a lot of information compared to others there. Talking Dog calculated there was a 52% chance for one neighbor to be a villain in post #1,860. Right now, pure probability for any villager says it is 40% that one of the other players is a villain, and 33% based on the share of total remaining players, so that is a significant odds increase on that basis alone, which is one reason I would tend to favor voting Simp over Jabbz.
I'm not opposed to voting Jabbz for the reasons Simp mentioned--he inexplicably blew two uses of his power by misunderstanding it early--and then claimed he used the third when the information on both who I tracked and who Bee-Boy targeted were both known in the thread before his announcement. He has provided very little in the way of traceable opinions. Much like Robot, he has expressed some very odd views on Old Tea Man at a point where it stopped making any sense to question him. Much of the analysis for why a Simp/Robot combo on D4/D5 makes sense also applies to Jabbz/Robot and Jabbz/Simp combos. If he has a villain buddy outside those two, the most logical one would probably be Omar. I could provide cover for his fake role. We start a late train on Robot D5 to setup a mislynch target for D6, since we would not care who dies between Talking Dog and Doc. Since I know I'm a villager and because of the neighbor-villain odds calculated by Talking Dog, he ranks third for me on my vote list.
I would tend to vote Robot-->Simp-->Jabbz-->Doc-->Skelly. We have to go runner-runner for the backdoor flush draw here on the turn and river.
Jabbz voted Robot, in addition to Doc. As I said earlier, I think it is very unlikely for them to both be villains given that Jabbz's late vote could have easily caused Doc to get lynched by a tiebreak. That makes me believe at least one of them (and quite possibly both of them) have to be a villager voting Robot, so I don't think I'm joining a villain-villain train.
Given that, I feel about as comfortable as I'm likely to get about voting, so Robot.
Completed: SG2-Wonders or Else!; SG3-Monarch Can't Hold Me; WW3-Surviving Wolf; PBEM3-Replacement for Timmy of Khmer; PBEM11-Screwed Up Huayna Capac of Zulu; PBEM19-GES, Roland & Friends (Mansa of Egypt); SG4-Immortality Scares Me
For me to vote for Kaiser, I would have to believe:
- He decided to indicate a check on me, while knowing I will be targeted by a most-likely scum ability, and once I announce that my power was lost, his play is to revert his claim of checking me.
To me this seems a very scum complex scenario and I find very little motivation for scum-Kaiser to pull it off. The only scenario I can imagine this working out is Kaiser being a 3rd party, while faking a check on me, thus being surprised by me actually beign targeted. But even that makes little sense, and I doubt a 3rd party exists in this game due to thrawn being traitor.
Gaspar's comment on the scenario above when I asked was that it seems very unlikely for a coordinated scum team, but possible if they are just playing individually. I find it very unlikely that wolf team would not plan their night actions together.
- After Kaiser reveals he was doing a fake check (https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid754952), it prompts Bob to post & vote Kaiser, https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid754959
So I would have to believe that Bob decided this is the perfect opportunity to make a distancing play with scum-Kaiser. It doesn't really fit to the way I think Bob had been playing the game, more likely explanation for me being that he found a reason to justify his vote of the day.
Bob's later listing of players still has Kaiser as the clear candidate, while leaving a door open for voting me, https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid755144
But I would say he is very committed still on getting Kaiser Lynched. According to Rowain's post in the previous page, the votes at the time of this post are:
I haven't looked in detail the points GES made above on the Kaiser/Alhambram pairings, so this is based on my current feeling after my own reading.
My insticts are telling me to vote Gaspar as while his votes for Commodore & Bob are good, the way he has played the game (feel based, not digging into details) is an easy way for a wolf to hide. Active early but that's dropped heavily as the game progressed. For me his D3 was most notable, the lack of will to dig deeper into Lewwyn/Pind/Meiz drama and the attack on Cyneheard who was starting to pick up attention, and which I still think was painting him in much badder light than was necessary.
I think today is the day to see if I was somehow fooled by the mailman ability (which I still doubt unfortunately), or if I still have the day vigshot left. We need to lynch correctly today, so the shot should not end the game even if missed. I have hard time picturing Alhambram as a scum, so mostly pondering between Jabbz/GES. Leaning towards shooting GES just because it feels like Jabbz scum play would be just a strange gambit after another (D1 random vote on Commodore, misunderstanding of role and thinking of catching Rowain etc.), and not sure how likely that scenario actually would be for him to pull off. Anyone objects?
(October 12th, 2020, 10:59)Kaiser Wrote: Scenario B: (One of Kaiser and Meiz Scum)
B1. Kaiser scum, Meiz town
In this case it was a very close call and the other wolf was likely already on Meiz, probably early to pull few suspicion but also not able to shift the tally heavier against Meiz. Meiz then hit a streak of Genius targeting the lowest effort Player in the game hitting WWbob.
For GES's post above, I think you can make anyone look scummy when looking at the votes and ignoring the words used & tone from the posts. So I'm suspicious on how he ends up with putting Alhambram as potential scum with:
"Simp votes no lynch on D1. Everyone thought that was odd at the time but just let it pass. Then he makes the exact same vote as Jabbz, Omar, Doc, and Skelly on D2 and D3, so it is hard to gain a lot of information compared to others there. Talking Dog calculated there was a 52% chance for one neighbor to be a villain in post #1,860. Right now, pure probability for any villager says it is 40% that one of the other players is a villain, and 33% based on the share of total remaining players, so that is a significant odds increase on that basis alone, which is one reason I would tend to favor voting Simp over Jabbz."
When I'm reading the way Alhambram played D2, I do not get a feeling of him being scumbuddies with Commodore.
(October 15th, 2020, 17:29)Gaspar Wrote: A: Not really. I mean we know that scum have the ability to eliminate a role reveal. I just find the whole thing dubious.
B/C: I don't mean to insult you, just that I'm suspicious of people who make very long posts and lots of conspiracy theories in WW games.
D: We all can read the votes however we want. I give no credit nor no demerits for the thrawn lynch. It is no doubt a very good thing that he died on day 1. But it also doesn't tell us anything about the voters alignment. Anyone who votes late on a target gets less credit than those who push. Scum often straggle on late to look good. And as we know, both remaining scum were on Commodore. Day 3, we lynched a villager, but that also doesn't tell us anything, because we mislynch villagers all the time. Day 4, you were not on the scum. Hence, your voting history is suspect. It in and of itself does not make you scum, but it does mean your voting history doesn't give you any town cookies.
E: I've caught way more scum off tone reads than any other method. Doesn't work for everyone, doesn't even work for me all the time, but its the best I've got. Obviously as we get later in the game there's a whole meta to consider and you can't use any one method exclusively.
Thanks for your thoughts, I would have liked them to be more detailed but I your answer is in line with my feeling you avoided being detailed most of the game. I would have expected you to give me some more details here, when asked specifically:
A. What exactly do you find dubious
B/C. Why are you suspicious of this? Is it a way to fake participation? How does it compare to stating scum reads without any explanation besides tone reading and that you are good at tone reading?
D. I do give you the same credit for Commodore you are giving me for thrawn, zero. However, I find it interesting that you praise yourself about your tone reading abilities but give no credit to people finding scum Day1. Does it not indicate that these people were trying to identify scummy behaviour? I believe Day3 tells us something as the wolves set up Lewwyn for a mislynch, so I believe it highly likely that there were 2 wolves on Lewwyn. How come you do not speak about Day5? Here you were a pivotal part of mislynching Sunrise even though his defense and me trying to point inconsitencies in your argumentation out should at least have had you consider your argument?
E. I am happy for you that you did and it looks to be more efficient early game. However we are at lylo and lynching me without trying to explain your reasoning will not help the other players find an informed decision themselves. It is in best case piling onto other people's arguments but I believe you are having your reasons for voting me, and that is winning the game for the wolves.
(October 12th, 2020, 10:59)Kaiser Wrote: Scenario B: (One of Kaiser and Meiz Scum)
B1. Kaiser scum, Meiz town
In this case it was a very close call and the other wolf was likely already on Meiz, probably early to pull few suspicion but also not able to shift the tally heavier against Meiz. Meiz then hit a streak of Genius targeting the lowest effort Player in the game hitting WWbob.
Thanks for the compliments Kaiser!
Any time, sadly it is hypothetical as the scenario is wrong due to me not being scum.
I had to take a strategical decision to narrow down my reads and have decided, that if any wolf would have earned winning this game, then it would be GrandMaMeiz. I am not sure I would be able to change the outcome anyway, so I will continue with the assumption of Meiz town from here on out.
My higest suspect is Gaspar, but Jabbz and GES feel weird with the interaction Alhambram pointed out among other reasons. I will look into this this evening, my current scum guess is Gaspar/Jabbz.
Alhambram I have a more positive feeling about, though I wanted to revisit his attack on sunrise.
Guys, please ask yourselves why Rowain died tonight, if Meiz is town, then he would have been a target at least as attractive I believe.
Who catches the most suspicion by a Rowain death?
