( No Players )[Lurker Thread] CIV VI PBEM19 Beginner

[Kaiser]

thanks for taking over the CIV lists, here is some map talk, I found a script in the Got Lakes mod which creates a decent shape for a 5 player game.
Here is the rough outline, resources are not done yet and I probably want to have a look/get your help looking at estimated settling space and overpowered Campus locations



City states
Player 1
Player 2
Player 3
Player 4
Player 5

What do you think of the space/player ratio and the general setup?
5 CS in the middle opens a strong avenue for somebody rushing these with his units, but the players won't know before, maybe I should put a mountain range around the desert to limit access?
currently there are Natural Wonders placed near each starting position but out of direct sight, should I reduce the number of wonders?

Here is the current state of the save file, only minor editing to equalize available land, give Mountains/geothermal vents to everybody and place the CS so far

[suboptimal]

OK...originally I was just worried about the city-state placements but in thinking about this map more there are some terrain issues as well...

- I think the city-state islands in the NE and NW need to move around the main land mass towards the equator - they're too bunched towards the north (if near-perfect symmetry is the goal)
- The city-states in the desert should likewise be shifted. P5 should move one or two "notches" SE, P2 SE to the lake.
- Start positions should relocate to the open areas midway between the CS "spokes". This gives everyone access to 4 city-states.
- Civs that rely on desert (Egypt, Nubia, Mali) or Tundra (Russia, Canada, but who cares aboot that one) are nerfed as these terrains are generally inaccessible.
- Speaking of terrain & features, does this map have any floodplains or are those not integrated yet?

If you're comfortable with a text editor it might be possible to make a slight edit to the map script you used and get terrain distribution that puts tundra in the middle and on the outer edge. You'd need to add the following three lines of code at the start of the GenerateMap() function:

g_yCenter = math.ceil(g_iH / 2);
g_xCenter = math.ceil(g_iW / 2);
g_iNumEquator = math.ceil(g_iH / 2);

That sets the map so that terrain and features are generated as if you're looking down at the north (or south) pole.

[Woden]

Warriors always start west of the settler. Player 2's (?) start may need to be adjusted a little bit. If they move in the right direction, they might find red tiles after a few turns, compared to everybody else's starts. Player 5's start too, might be a little close to a city state. I usually make sure at least one city can fit between a city state and a players capital.

[Kaiser]

  PBEM19 V1.1 - Kopie.Civ6Map.civ6save (Size: 436 KB / Downloads: 0)
Thanks for the feedback, I will try to integrate it.
The map script has had generated tundra and desert but I removed it as I feel that even for the CIVs which have benefits, they only get back to average tiles. I was thinking along the lines of editing deserts/tundras back in around their start position if somebody picks accordingly and needs it for the CIV execution (Nubia wants CC adjacent deserts if I remember correctly).

The map has all features besides tundra, snow and desert, I removed to 5 Natural wonders for the moment and just left Eye of the Sahara in the middle.
The overview shot apparently only shows plains, grassland, tundra desert, here is the new one taking into accout your suggestions for placement.



I failed at placing the start positions as Suboptimal suggested, midway between the spokes of the CS wheel.
Instead I went with everybody starting close to one CS, which is only conquerable late (all player facing coast are cliffs) and far away from the others.
All capitals have a distance of 19-20, besides Player 5 and 4 which are 18 tiles apart.
I made sure that access into the desert is only possible by passing through a CS territory.
I have given some resources to the CS already but did not tweak the starting positions

Please give me further input, I adjust accordingly. What do you think of this general setup?
If we agree on this layout, I will prepare some closer screenshots so we can discuss resources (for that reason I removed all strategical resources for the moment) and starting positions.

Here are some questions:
Would you let the CS be random or choose them?
Shall we consider giving slightly better starting positions to the beginners? (We could roll their respective positions as soon as we have agreed on the general layout)
How much amenities/strategic resources should I plan per player?


I hope this time it works to have the file attached. I had to add .civ6save at the end of the file name, please delete that part if you want to check the file in worldbuilder

[suboptimal]

I think city-states should be random, but the save should be loaded in single player to make sure Nan Madol is not on the map (or is Nan Madol unbanned for this game)? If the game puts two scientific/cultural CS in close proximity to a player then maybe consider a re-roll?

With the amenities changes in the new patch I think there needs to be a luxury resource accessible to the capital, whether it's second or third ring is up for discussion. However, I'd say that that luxury should require the same tech/improvement for all players. Beyond that maybe let WB place the resources and just check for balance between regions. Just be aware that anyone that starts close to a continental boundary will have more amenities available since luxury resources are spread based upon continent.

As for strategics I believe the "convention" is to have at least one each of horses and iron in the immediate area, though it need not be at the capital.

I'm not sure whether the experienced players should be placed next to each other or on opposite sides of the map. In the case of the latter we'd wind up with a newbie sandwiched between two vets; in the case of the former one of the newbies has no vet exposure.

[Woden]

I would say everybody has access to 2 sources for each strategic. Have one close to the capital (doesn't have to be at capital but should be within the first ring of cities) and have a second source somewhere in "their" area. With how resources work in GS, one having one source means building a unit every 10 turns. Seems a little too limiting.

For the luxuries, how are the continents set up on this map and how many are there? Each continent has 4 luxury types plus sea resources, so I would make sure to follow that when adding resources. Balancing luxuries can be difficult. I, personally, don't like putting science, faith, or culture generating resources in reach of the capital because it can give someone an early advantage in the first 10 or so turns. One possibility would be to give one of those to the newbies, as a little advantage at the start.

As for City States, you can try to have the game pick them but with half the CS on water, you are bound to get Nan Madol. When making the save for PBEM17, I rolled the save at least 10 times and got Nan Madol 10 times. I ended up taking a list of CS and rolling which ones were going to be in the game. I still let the game place them but specified which ones where in the game.

[Jabah]

I would offr a river (instead of lake) to everyone so they have some options for aqueduc and access to river based building/imporovment etc ... (looking at the pink start specificaly)

[suboptimal]

Perhaps that could be fixed by moving pink E-NE? That'd put them on a river at about the same distance from the outer ring city-state as everyone else.

I will say I'm enjoying the mod conversation in the org thread.

[Kaiser]

Me too, I just do not know yet how this interacts with the created map, do I need to set anything or can they pick the shuffle tech setting when starting the game?

@Jabah, I think you are right, I will extend the nearest rivers to Pink and Blue to get them a river start as well as moving them will shift the player distance unfavourably

[suboptimal]

Fortunately they dropped the idea of the shuffle mode. If they wanted to play with that active then whoever created the save file would have needed to have NFP and created the save with that game mode active.