[PB61] Map-making thread (No players)

[civac2]

How big is the map (Standard, Large, Huge)?

[Tarkeel]

I'm thinking of going standard size with low sea level. I plan to generate maps until I find a shape I like, and then hammer that into something resembling fair.

[Tarkeel]

I've rolled a few starts and got this one that I really like the shape of. I've marked in tentative starts.


This is the completely raw version of the map, before any alterations. I'll probably deepen the bay between A and G, and add some more land between D and F on the southern coast.

Relevant distances:
A-B: 12+1
A-G: 14+3
B-D: 13+4
C-E: 13+6
C-G: 9+9
D-F: 13+2
E-F: 13+2

[Tarkeel]

Using Random.org I've randomly assigned start locations to playerIDs/snake pick order:

There were 7 items in your list. Here they are in random order:

B
F
G
E
D
A
C

Could someone please randomize the players to snake pick order/playerID?

Joshybravo963
BING_XI_LAO
Vanrober
Bellarch
Rekenner
JackRB
JesseL

[civac2]

JackRB
Rekenner
Joshybravo963
Vanrober
BING_XI_LAO
Bellarch
JesseL

[civac2]

Also, I had a look at the seafood start with worker -> warrior -> warrior vs wb -> wb -> worker or wb -> worker. It's about a turn-ish behind by turn 23 and the first warrior is much later which is OK I suppose if starts are sufficiently far apart. You do get a decent amount of extra commerce if you chose Fishing as a starting tech. However, there may be better ways to play the starts. It's difficult to compare a double worker start for example.

The two turns advantage of the deer start is more of a problem.

[Tarkeel]

Was that with fish or crab/clam in the lake? Starts are mostly 13 tiles apart, with the notable exception of C to G. I might add some peak and lakes to make that more of a detour.

Deer is a hard resource to balance. I think the best I can do is to make the forested deer second ring, so you at least have to wait for borders to pop before you can work it. Removing the forest or making it into a tundra both run into the same issue: It then is only 5 foodhammers after the camp, which is slightly worse off than the other starts.

Edit: I think I'll swap the animals around based on primary food:
Fishing: Pigs
Agriculture: Cows
Hunting: Sheep

[civac2]

Coast fish and lake crabs. The fishing start is fine. The extra commerce does matter.

Ideas:
You could try to make the worker two turns to reach the deer.
You could also give the fish a forest for +1 hammer, maybe.

[Tarkeel]

I could make mangrove swamps for the fishing starts, but that feels too gimmicky for a greens game. I will however place the deer in second ring, with hill/forest in the way to delay the worker.

[Lazteuq]

I don't have anything smart to say about the starts, but I have some thoughts about overall map shape. I don't mean any of these questions as rhetorical, they are actual questions.

-What do you think of a coastal path around the world? That would help people like starts C and B make contact with eachother. I know Superdeath was in an unfortunate situation in PB52 similar to start B where Pindicator blocked his only pre-astro trade routes and there was no coast path around the map. I think a coast path is also nice for potential naval shenanigans. A coastal path also enables earlier circumnavigation, I'm not sure what to think about that.

-I think start G has the most secure early borders and will be easily able to focus their attention on C, while C has to worry about equal threat from G and E!. Similar for A. Meanwhile, everyone else has two pretty equally accessible neighbors. I think that's sort of unfair. Especially Starts E and F may feel unfairly surrounded. Deepening the bay between E and G will only make that disparity worse. I was actually thinking the opposite, to make the bay less dramatic (maybe all coast tiles also?) and add a corresponding bay along the southern coast, maybe between F and E. Do you want the map to be semi-divided into two groups or not?

-I think a gap in the jungle belt along the coast between B and D would help encourage contact between them. We don't want B and A to be all alone in their own duel for the first 100 turns. How much of a border do you want the jungle to be? I think having gaps in the jungle along rivers adds cool flavor and keeps the jungle from feeling too monotonous, but that's just a casual opinion.

-That floodplain between D and F feels like a hotly contested border area. I'm not sure if we want that for a greens game. I can't see resources, but it looks like none of the others have such juicy border areas.

-I like the significant chunks of desert and plains.