new civ 6 game?

[greenline]

The last game's bans and rules
https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...p?tid=1079

These don't include the new leaders that were introduced with the leader pass. Perhaps a good clarifying question is if this game uses standard rules, rise and fall, or gathering storm?

Lurking, hopefully.

It seems like that links to a thread about screenshots?

The game would be based on Gathering Storm. I don't own all of the DCL - I am missing the Mayans / Gaul / Leader Pass stuff. If other people can have it enabled I don't mind.

[Bruindane]

Apparently I missed the trailing 8 when I copied the link previously.

https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...?tid=10798

As a side effect, bumping the thread for those who don't check in too often.

[ljubljana]

I don't own all of the DCL - I am missing the Mayans / Gaul / Leader Pass stuff. If other people can have it enabled I don't mind.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thiiink if one player is missing the post-Mayans DLC, we'd have to play without those civs. But...I'm fine with doing that if you don't wanna shell out cash for the New Frontier Pass. We have, I think, good reasons to believe most of the post-Maya civs are somewhat busted anyways, and playing without them could lead to a less degenerate experience.

If the field ends up looking something like greenline/ljubljana/TheArchduke(?)/krill, would you still want to play in that game, greenline? Krill is new to Civ6, but they are pretty legendary as a Civ4 player, and my opinion of their analysis in PBEM22 is quite high - I kind of suspect they are a much stronger player than your average 1-game noob, and probably are already stronger than, eg, me As for me, I've played in 3 games here, with what I think can be fairly characterized as "wildly variable" levels of performance, and TheArchduke is of course one of our longest-term and most consistently high-performing veterans. Taken as a whole, that is probably not a greener-than-average group of opponents for RB - would that still be better from your perspective than no game at all?

[greenline]

I looked over the rules there and made a draft that would fit this game, assuming no CS.

- DoF blocking allowed with no restrictions
-- Embarked units supporting naval fights - no restrictions (they can do that?)
- - Banned wonders: Venetian arsenal, Statue of Zeus (no idea what SoZ does, is it one of the DCL things i don't own?)
- Banned pantheons: Religious settlements
- When a DoF is offered it must be accepted or rejected on the same turn. This is because there is no way to retract a DoF and the player who received the offer can hold it and accept it at a later turn, which will start the 30 turn timer from that point - something that the sender may no longer wish.
- No tactical DoWs regarding Australia, Persia, and India.
- Ending turn with shift-enter is not allowed. (don't know what that does, but i will not touch it)
- Work ethic - banned completely

- Banned civs: Sumeria, Maori, Scythia, Hungary?

is Hungary that good with no CS?  All they really have is the river district benefit. If people still don't like them we can ban them too

I also think work ethic only really gets out of control with the +adjacent pantheons. If you can't stack a ton of +7 rainforest / desert / tundra boosting ones on it then it's just decent. But I suppose just banning work ethic instead of work ethic plus a pantheon is easier

I don't own all of the DCL - I am missing the Mayans / Gaul / Leader Pass stuff. If other people can have it enabled I don't mind.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thiiink if one player is missing the post-Mayans DLC, we'd have to play without those civs. But...I'm fine with doing that if you don't wanna shell out cash for the New Frontier Pass. We have, I think, good reasons to believe most of the post-Maya civs are somewhat busted anyways, and playing without them could lead to a less degenerate experience.

If the field ends up looking something like greenline/ljubljana/TheArchduke(?)/krill, would you still want to play in that game, greenline? Krill is new to Civ6, but they are pretty legendary as a Civ4 player, and my opinion of their analysis in PBEM22 is quite high - I kind of suspect they are a much stronger player than your average 1-game noob, and probably are already stronger than, eg, me As for me, I've played in 3 games here, with what I think can be fairly characterized as "wildly variable" levels of performance, and TheArchduke is of course one of our longest-term and most consistently high-performing veterans. Taken as a whole, that is probably not a greener-than-average group of opponents for RB - would that still be better from your perspective than no game at all?

I don't mind playing against people with more experience. Green was a preference but it's probably a longshot to expect to get a full green field for civ 6. My first civ4 game here I hoped to be all green but I got matched with a few vets and still did OK.

[ljubljana]

-- Embarked units supporting naval fights - no restrictions (they can do that?)

Yes they can, because this is a Good And Well-Tested Game It only works on defense vs melee ship attackers, but if you have a front line of galleys with a ton of embarked scouts on the same tiles, both the scouts and the galleys will give support bonuses to the galleys, resulting in something like a +6 to +8 increase in defensive combat strength relative to where you would have been without the scouts. I was worried about this being a problem in PBEM22, which was a naval game, but it didn't come up there at all, so it's probably safe to not worry about it here.

- - Banned wonders: Venetian arsenal, Statue of Zeus (no idea what SoZ does, is it one of the DCL things i don't own?)

Yeah, looks like it's from Byzantium + Gaul - I didn't know what it did either until looking it up just now

- Ending turn with shift-enter is not allowed. (don't know what that does, but i will not touch it)

There are a number of things that the game will try to force you to do before ending your turn in the usual way - basically all the game actions that replace the "end turn" button, eg, picking a pantheon, choosing a tech/civic to research, firing on enemies with a city ranged strike, etc. Shift-Enter lets you bypass this, which can lead to various exploitative tricks like (I think) banking research for a couple turns to delay committing to a tech choice. The only time I've ever used this was once in PBEM20 when the game tried to make my city fire on a free city unit that I reeeeally wanted to keep at full health (because I was in the process of being conquered and it would slow down my conqueror ). Not sure I think that particular use was exploitative, but there are enough gamey things you can do with it that it's probably simplest just to ban it.

is Hungary that good with no CS?  All they really have is the river district benefit. If people still don't like them we can ban them too

Nah, if we did run a no-CS game I think we could safely to free Hungary. But if we do play with CS on as usual (as I think we probably should unless there is consensus in favor of a no-CS game), the game that got them banned was Alhambram's PBEM16, which was enough of an uncontested walkover that I think they're still banworthy. For a game on Pangaea with CS allowed, we could consider adding a ban of Nubia to prevent a repeat of thrawn's CS snowball in PBEM19, but that one's more of a judgement call IMO.

I also think work ethic only really gets out of control with the +adjacent pantheons. If you can't stack a ton of +7 rainforest / desert / tundra boosting ones on it then it's just decent. But I suppose just banning work ethic instead of work ethic plus a pantheon is easier

Yeah, I could go either way on Work Ethic. There are more use-cases that could fall under "abusive" than just stacking it with adjacency pantheons (Japan and Australia's civ abilities come to mind), and I think even in generic circumstances (~+4-6 hammers per Holy Site with the doubling card) it is close to a must-pick belief for the first religion. But if there's consensus in favor of freeing it in some or all circumstances, I'm fine with doing so.

[greenline]

I'd say the downside of going for work ethic with a civ specific strategy is that it locks you into playing either japan or australia (the latter in particular i think is a weak choice). but yeah, probably simpler to just ban it considering how good it is compared to the other religious beliefs.

(makes me want to try modding this game because it would be pretty well balanced if it was just 75% adjacency to cogs instead of all... hmm)

[greenline]

Another thing to try and set up - is there anyone either willing to hand build a map, or failing that, roll a bunch of random ones and make minor edits? I'd prefer to play on something more balanced, but I will take more random if no one has the time for going in depth

[greenline]

TheArchduke, can we hear a yay or nay based on the proposed settings thus far? I'll pin them in the first post

[ljubljana]

PS TAD, I personally am down for pretty much any settings if you'd like any changes from those (esp the no city states thing which was just an idea, not one i'm particularly invested in)

[MJW (ya that one)]

Thrawn in his Nubia game stole religious settlements, so you really cannot ban it with adjacency bonuses. He also benefitted from guessing the map and had the huge payout of the blob of CSs in the middle. Nubia is probably okay.

Nan Madol is not a problem with no CS.

If this would be another Teamers game I would advise banning Sumer. Just get a buddy with a +5 UU and your up to + 10 which should be too much to deal with. Thrawn won before that happened.

I believe mods caused problems in our last game here, so that should be addressed in the rules too.