Thank you xist10 and Tarkeel. I welcome your input. Does that also mean either of you can sub for me if I’m unable to play for a while? Should I give you both my username and password for the game so you can observe in game?
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PB75 - A New Beginning
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I am usually available to step in as needed, but as I'm a general lurker, I'll need very explicit instructions on what to do.
Like Tarkeel and El Grillo wrote, they not really, but I could substitute.
So and now the important question: I see, you picked Inca. Do you care to spell out your reason ? And do you have a few ideas about the leader ?
January 13th, 2024, 19:00
(December 31st, 2023, 16:17)xist10 Wrote: Like Tarkeel and El Grillo wrote, they not really, but I could substitute. Sorry xist10, I've only just seen this. Historically I've almost always played random civs/leaders, and I just optimised the given situations, so I'm not very knowledgeable on the subject. I googled best leader/civ and got Huayna Capac of the Incas. The reasons given made sense - industrial and economic, which are both areas I focus on. I wasn't aware one could mix and match leaders and civs, I must confess. (January 13th, 2024, 19:00)ricketyclik Wrote: Historically I've almost always played random civs/leaders, and I just optimised the given situations, so I'm not very knowledgeable on the subject. Selecting civ and leader based on a screenshot before play begins is perhaps the biggest change from single-player, and it forces you to think about civs in a different way. Discussing which traits and civilizations are best for a given starting screenshot is one of the things the lurkers can help you with. Because you get to pick starting techs that match your requirements (and the starts are usually slightly better than random SP-games), our starts tend to be a lot quicker than you're probably used to. It's common to have the second city settled around T30 or so. (For my own games, it's been T28, T32, T30, T33, T35, T34) (January 13th, 2024, 19:00)ricketyclik Wrote: I googled best leader/civ and got Huayna Capac of the Incas. The reasons given made sense - industrial and economic, which are both areas I focus on. I wasn't aware one could mix and match leaders and civs, I must confess. Those search results would be for unmodified BtS gameplay, and probably for restricted leaders, neither of which apply to this game. In particular, the old Inca Terrace (granary) had culture, giving them half of CREative for free, while now it's just slightly cheaper and gives irrigation. This actually matters for your start, since you have a dry corn next to the capital, which will turn irrigated once you build a Terrace there, for an extra food. The leader traits have also been heavily revised in CtH, with FINancial in particular taking a beating. It's still probably one of the strongest traits, but not as overpowering as before: It only applies to land-tiles with 3 or more commerce (effectively mature cottages and some luxuries), and water tiles for cities with a lighthouse. INDustrious has got a slight boost, as it now also applies to national wonders, and the resource-modifier for wonders have been lowered to 50%. It's still rated by many as one of the worse traits, getting better the fewer players that have it in a game. Personally I like it, but I see the main bonus as being able to 2-whip forges everywhere as soon as MetalCasting comes in, with wonders as a bonus. I think your pick will do fine; in particular Inca does have starting techs that apply to your start. China's agriculture+mining would have been considered the best starting techs, but I'm glad to see the new Inca taken for a spin. At this point of the game it's customary to look at the other player's picks and try to divine what they will do with it, and who you'd like to be your neighbors.
January 14th, 2024, 03:13
Jeez! That's a lot of information! Thanks!
So, any thoughts on the other players and their picks?
I communicate primary over this forum.
Thought to other players isn't something a lurker should do. But I'm a deadlurker and I have a bit more freedom. First of all: Try to inform you over CtH Changes. Most are small and more or less visible in the ingamewiki, but a few changes aren't. Something I forget during my first game. Flanking damage is (greatly) reduced. I didn't took a few battles, because I expected to lose my catapults to flanking damage, but I think, most of them would have survived and I would win the counter attack. Furthermore, I can only recommend https://civ.zulan.net/vodka. The combat simulator has a few quirks and is for BtS, but still easier to use than the worldbuilder, if you have huge battles. Worldbuilder (reload, new random seed) is better, but vodka faster. Additional, if you have time, search the old thread from the player and take a look at theire past performance. This can help to place the player a bit. And if you have to much time, read the threat and the threat of the neighbours in the game. I am not a very experiented player and relative new here on RB, so take it with a grain of salt. Greenline - Catherina of Sumeria Greenline is relative green. He did a good beeline to Cataphracts in the PB72, but I was able to stop them early enough that the war wasn't a huge win for Greenline. Map layout did more, that Greenline finished at a shared 2nd place in a 4 player game. This is the 3rd game for Greenline in recent time. Greenline had a relative invested Deadlurker with Tarkeel in the first game, his second game is still going. I would say one of the weaker players in the game. In BtS and CtH, Catherina has the IMP/CRE combi. Catherina will have much land. IMP makes the settlers cheaper, CRE adds the culture. Both maybe not the strongest trait, but relative easy to play. And I think both traits are unchanged in CtH ? Sumeria has the early, cheaper courthouses. This has a synergy with Imp. I don't really like the vulture - they are weaker than axemen on paper. But like I saw in the PB72, a stronger unit has more value. I'm not sure if I want to have Greenline as neighbour. I don't think Greenline is one of the better players, but his leader (and civ) selection makes him not easy to have. Nauf - Suleiman of America I have no idea. Nauf has a bit of experience, but I don't follow the games here enough to place Nauf. I think top3, top 4 of the strength ? America had huge discussion over the UB during the last update. +2 untyped GP points per turn ? Add PHI (got an buff from BtS towards GP) from Suleiman and I expect them to try to duplicate Mjmd plan in the PB70 - you can found it in the archiv. EXP got hit by a nerf and lost the BT bonus. Still good thanks to the granary, but weaker than on BtS. Minutemen is a musket with free woodsman ? I have not enough informations and I think, I undervalue the american UB, but I would say, okay as neighbour. Good players are not the best as neighbour, but I see no clear red flag. Gavagai - Asoka of Egypt I don't want to have Gavagai as neighbour. I think Gavagai has a bit of the problem, that he makes plans a bit like SP, but he can plan devasting attacks. On the other side, the PB66 was ended, when Gavagai got surprised by an attack, he planned to do the other player for month. Okay, the game was very slow, that the ~3 month aren't that many turns, but still, this is sloppy. I still think Gavagai is a strong player. ORG is good. Weaker then I know - I play MP most on Deity, there you could argue, thet ORG is stronger than FIN - but still one of the stronger economy traits. Less Civic maintance and cheaper courthouses (city maintance). SPI is difficult to play and it's value difficult to place. Primary advantage: You suffer no anarchy. I think Gav can get the maximum from this trait. Egypt remains unchanged. This means a priest slot for monuments (and they don't get outdated at astro anymore) and the warchariot is strength 5. The obelisk makes Gavagai a strong canditate for the ~4rd religion (Theo/CoL) and even then for one of the earlier religions - Egypt start with mystik. The war chariot is a strong rush unit. I don't want to start anywhere near Gavagai. I don't think Gav can be a good neighbour, Gav is higly aggressive and has a good rush unit. Ricketyclik - Huayna Capac of the Incas I think Tarkeel wrote a few good points. Mjmd - Nebuchadnezzar of India Maybe the strongest player in the group. Nebuchadnezzar should have the (in BtS unused) IND/PHI combo. Not the strongest in the current meta, even when I heart, that they removed it from Vanilla Gandhi because it was to strong ? A relativ good synergy over wonders, Mjmd is one of the primary suspects to built them. India has one of the better UU. Nothing worldchanging, but the movement2 worker with mobility is active in all stages of the game. The UB is nothing to write home about. Late and +2 happiness at that stage isn't that strong. I don't want to start near Mjmd, because Mjmd is a good player. And I'm not sure If I could get a peacefulll border with Mjmd too- if you have time, take a look at the PB72 and Prudence/Ravenna. Ginger - Washington of Ottomans I can't really access Ginger's strength. We played together in the PB90 (civforum.de), but this wasn't a good teamplay - from both sides. I think I can thank my good placement later a bit towards Gingers strength (and the fact, another player flipped the table and gifted me 6 cities). I still would place Ginger in the better half. Washington is EXP/CHA. I don't really like it. Gingers has big cities ? CHA gives effective 2 happiness in most cities. The 25% less exp for promotions are weaker than they sound on paper, I think. It's only relevant later in the game. Ottomans UB is nearly the same. An aqueduct with +2 happiness. My playstyle has many cities, but not huge cities, so I don't like it. The janissaries is one of the UU, which seems good on paper, but have a few claring weaknesses. Muskets aren't that good. The lose to the earlier knight and agsint cities is the macemen with cityraider better. Janissaries are a bit better, because they get an 25% bonus against all enemys (archer, melee, mounted). Still, their window is small and you can't prepare Janissaries, because there is no unit which upgrade to them. I think another viable neighbour. Not the best option, but no red flag and not the best player. You need to have an answer to Janissaries, but the rest ? ljubljana - Tokugawa of Zulu Another relativ green player, I think. Toku was one of the worst leader in BTS, he good a huge buff in CtH. Especially during the early game, PRO can (is) better than FIN and AGG can be better than FIn in the late game. I think I overtste the economic advantange from both traits, but they are viable picks. The extra promotions and built boni are good too. The 2 movement+mobility spear of the zulu is okay. I know, I undertstate it, but I don't like spearmen - we have a axemen(cata) focus on civforum.de, not a chariot/horsearcher - and I think the 2 movement isn't that good. Still decent, I know worse UU. The Ikhanda is in the running for one of the best UB, I think. -20% maintance since gamestart ? On the barrack ? I like the combo, but I don't really want the combo as neighbour, but I think we could have the player as neighbour. Caution: The threat is relative active - 17 pages at time of writing. This could mean more help - even only discussion. Dreylin - Napoleon of Babylon Dreylin is a older player with not much recent experience ? He got rushed in the PB74. Napoleon has ORG/CHA. It's okay. ORG is a viable economic pick and CHA has the +2 happiness. Fewer exp per promotion is okay, but not that strong. Babylon has better archers, with a bonus against melee they aren't useless. The garden is not that good. +2 health ? Colosseum as building got a buff in CtH, but is still not that good. Most maps are relativ lush, in my experience here. And you can compare it to the Hamman of the ottomans. 20 prod cheaper, but no cost reduction witnstone and 1 happiness less. I think I would like to have Dreylin as neighbour. Nothing in the combination where I would say, this is dangerous and I think, not a good player. Not the weakest, but I have to settle at not the best. SD - Kublai Khan of Rome His pick reflect that. Kublai Khan is one of the worst leader to have as neighbour in the early game, the combination of CRE/AGG is not really economic viable, but even worse than CRE/IMP as neighbour. CRE/IMP will fill the place till the middle between 2 empires faster and expand in your area. But you can attack them. CRE/AGG will pace a city in your area and you can't really do smething against that, because you need 3 axemen for every defending axemen. Rome has one of the strongest UU in the game. The praetorians have a huge synergy with AGG. They aren't that good offensive - still Praet/Cat is more viable than axe/cata for a early war. The huge advantage of praetorians is there ability, to defend (with catas) against rifles and even infantry. If you have to invade a roman with construction and iron, you need Cannons and/or machineguns - look at my PB72 report. I don't think SD has a chance to win it, but he should be the player with the most played games here and I think one of the better half. Like Nauf I would say Top3 or Top4. I generally don't want to start near SD and I don't really want to start near Kublai Khan of Rome. GT - Boudica of Ethiopia I think, a comparasion between GT and SD is possible. I think this isn't right, but GT is similar aggressive. Like me a german player, GT has about similar experience and strength. Not a green player - about 7 games, I think, but not a good player either. AGG/CHA Boudicca is one of the best 2-3 leaders to wage wa. Ethiopia not. They have a okay UU, but it's a musket. Like I wrote near Ginger, muskets aren't that good. And the Oromo has addional first strikes. Not useless, but first strikes are better, if your enemy is (significant) weaker or stronger. The Stele replace the monument and don't outdate, but the +25% culture is only important later on. You don't get much +% for culture, but you don't really need much culture, that you profit from this. I don't really want to start near a AGG GT either.
Some minor comments to what Xist wrote:
(January 14th, 2024, 09:31)xist10 Wrote: First of all: Try to inform you over CtH Changes. Most are small and more or less visible in the ingamewiki, but a few changes aren't. The full changelog is here. (January 14th, 2024, 09:31)xist10 Wrote: Furthermore, I can only recommend https://civ.zulan.net/vodka. The combat simulator has a few quirks and is for BtS, but still easier to use than the worldbuilder, if you have huge battles. Worldbuilder (reload, new random seed) is better, but vodka faster. Seconded. Vodka is great for some fast checking, but it should ever be considered a best/worst case scenario: the attacker can usually outperform Vodka by picking a better order of attacks. (January 14th, 2024, 09:31)xist10 Wrote: This is the 3rd game, Greenline had a relative invested Deadlurker with Tarkeel in the first game. I would say one of the weaker players in the game. I wouldn't say I was that invested; the turnpace in that game was so fast that everything I said was about 5 turns out of date. (January 14th, 2024, 09:31)xist10 Wrote: EXP got hit by a nerf and lost the BT bonus. Still good thanks to the granary, but weaker than on BtS. The american-UU is back to the original Navy SEAL, and BT is the german slang for worker. |