Where do we go from here?

[Hawkmoon]

Variants. That's the RB way and I think it's something we need to start pushing.

That's all well and good, but I don't see how it addresses the declining numbers issue. Do we need to advertise, either in-game, or on some of the major fora (like guildwarsguru)? You suggested in a later post in the thread that we might want to make an "RB wiki" - that'd be great, in theory, but how do we get people to the wiki to find out about us? We can't just expect that there are a whole legion of GW players out there who are going to be actively searching for us. Should we post threads about variant playstyles (not necessarily outright recruiting posts) in the major fora, and see what sort of interest (if any) we provoke?

As to the members list, I know this might sound a bit callous, but I think we should consider a kick after so long of inactivity policy.

I agree, with the proviso that long-standing RBers shouldn't be kicked. I think we can easily make an initial cut with the folks who haven't been online for 2 years (!). And I think it wouldn't be that much more of a step to kick those that have been inactive for a year. I will copy the names from the guild roster that fit into those categories, and y'all can tell me if there's anyone I shouldn't kick (I should be able to do that tomorrow).

The only other thing I have to say right now is that I think we should have a somewhat more formal relationship with Amazon Basin for our PvP. It's pretty obvious we only have 3-4 people left in the guild with enough interest so there's really no point in trying to run GvG when we can't field a team that would have a majority of its players come from us.

What happened to Alliance GvG?? Let's at least give that a chance to get off the ground!

[FoxBat]

I'm not on enough to have a valid opinion, but I'm more for redirecting to organized or semi-organized get-togethers than having a huge honkin guild. I'm one of the curmudgeons that already finds our attempts to reach out to run up against less than ideal folk, even if we have managed to salvage some good diamonds from that rough. If we do any advertising, it should be along Variant lines as that sort of lunacy rarely attracts the wrong people.

Whenever it comes down to it, I'm fine with the notion of the active players splitting off into their own guilds while still using this website to share stories or coordinate weekly variants or other get-togethers with the less active people. I'd prefer that to an agressive recruiting strategy that will compromise what we're about.

It doesn't solve our PvP problems but there are enough people to make a team variant work. Theres several that are hardly online that would come out each week given a good time, not to mention some buddies outside the guild we could easily recruit for that purpose.

[Lurker Wyrm]

That's all well and good, but I don't see how it addresses the declining numbers issue.

Well, it's sort of an "If you build it, they will come" kind of philosophy. The thing is, we need to get the people who are here posting their stories if we want to encourage others to join and do the same. It's also about time we start running another team variant. Maybe even some 3-day challenges or something like how RBCiv has the big epics and then the smaller adventures. Probably getting ahead of myself there, though.

Part of the reason for the declining numbers is that there's not much going on as a guild, so people lose interest in signing on. Yes, there are issues with the number of inactives on the roster, but it's all part of the same issue: we need to revitalize the guild.

You suggested in a later post in the thread that we might want to make an "RB wiki" - that'd be great, in theory, but how do we get people to the wiki to find out about us?

Actually, the wiki would be for us. Think of it as a community site where everyone has a chance to contribute. Yes, we'd need someone to oversee the structure and make sure links went where they were supposed to, but it would be contributed to and maintained by the entire community. It's a little hard for me to explain exactly what I mean, but basically: think of it as a somewhat more advanced version of the cutenews part of the web site. I'm not really sure if I'm communicating that right... We couldn't put up the long variant diaries like when we do a team variant since those take up too much room (# of pages, that is - LoL was somewhere around 20 and nudist is pretty close to that and not even half done) but if we wanted to put up descriptions of all the variants we have, including the ones that are still just concepts, that could be something to use it for.

Er... in response to your question, the wiki would be a database for RBers, not something we use to promote RB, if that makes any sense.

Should we post threads about variant playstyles (not necessarily outright recruiting posts) in the major fora, and see what sort of interest (if any) we provoke?

Well, I would say that if we're going to run a team variant then we could make a post about that, but if we're just doing personal variants then nah, keep those local.

What happened to Alliance GvG?? Let's at least give that a chance to get off the ground!

I was speaking more in a RB sense than an alliance sense.

[Drasca]

Well, here's an idea, maybe we start a RB wiki as a place to share variants and character stories.

Hmm... want to head that project?

Hawk may be leader, but its up to us all to build, play and report.

I'll say this of dual-class whopper-level Charr: Ouch

Ow! Sounds cool. This is the kind of lifeblood I want to hear! Play isn't as satisfying from a community standpoint if no one else (ok, me in this case) knows about it.

[FoxBat]

One low-maintenence thing we could try like right now is "challenge night." A time for the guild to get together and try some of the tougher aspects of the game, whether it be some elite mission, hard mode, dungeons, or just getting people through the tougher or later story missions. What is actually done can be discussed based on people present. It sounds like Sej and Hawkmoon have some time on Saturday they are getting together, maybe this can springboard off of the latter part of that.

Later on we might even come up with simple "one-night variants" to use at some of these, some KISS events that tend towards the silly. Like 8 Assassins in Raisu palace, or unrestricted nudists visiting a place like FoW. This lets people get into the fun of a variant without the time commitments of a team.

[Lurker Wyrm]

Hmm... want to head that project?

Well, I know less about wikis than I do about html, so that could be a double edged sword. I've looked through the garbled mess (ok, so it's not that bad) on a few of the gw wiki sites (the official and unofficial) and I guess mediawiki seems semi-doable. Sorta. I guess the idea of a wiki all comes down to whether KoP (or whoever) wants to load the software onto the server and get a basic contents page setup to get the figurative ball rolling (or literal, I suppose he could start rolling a ball around if he wanted to).

Oh, and by the way, when I say a wiki for RB, I mean all RB games, not just GW. I suppose I could/should have put a post up in the general forum, but oh well. Not sure how that would complicate things so, um, yeah. You guys should really know by now that I don't do complex stuff relating to software. Hardware and drivers and limited registry messing with are all fine, but when you start talking about anything to do with programming my knowledge takes a nose dive. I'm not even really sure if putting a wiki on the site is doable.

[WarBlade]

It's doable.

As for wiki code it's a far cry from HTML. Wiki code is barely more complex than standard forum formatting, so practically anyone able to conquer the hurdle of forums (without using the buttons up top) can get a decent result out of wiki edits.

[KingOfPain]

A RBWiki would be the thing to do, one that covers all RB STUFF, then sectioned into different games. Hosting it would not be a problem at all. I suppose I could sort through wiki codes if I have to, but I don't have the concentration to do so (as I have wanted to get Mamblo (a CMS) going but just couldn't quite get into it). Anyone like to volunteer, to head the project or be a member of the team, figure things out and formatting and stuff? We will call on the civ peeps to help too if we want to go for it.

PS: Good idea on one night stands, Foxbat.

KoP

[Lurker Wyrm]

Anyone like to volunteer, to head the project or be a member of the team, figure things out and formatting and stuff?

Before I volunteer for anything, I'd like a bit more info on what's involved in running a wiki since this will be uncharted territory. The way I understand it, wikis are run pretty much admin free, with the admins that do exist running around fixing blatant typos, bad links, and cleaning up any vandalism that may appear; in other words, they're more editors than admins.

We will call on the civ peeps to help too if we want to go for it.

Don't forget about the HG:L, Diablo, MoO, and GC people as well, they'll have just as much a stake in this as we do. Granted the last two don't get much activity anymore but they could still have something if they wanted it.

In any case, I think we have a few good stepping stones at the moment:
- Clean up the roster and prune off inactives (all we have to decide for that is where the cutoff point is).
- Get some short-term variants going that don't require commitments.
- Look into/start a wiki for the site.

I think once we get through all that we can start discussing possible advertisements/recruiting on web sites like Guru. The basic sentiment I'm getting from the people that have posted is that we need to get the people we do have involved more/again before we start trying to recruit anyone.

About that first point about inactives, I would say waiting for people to hit the 1-year mark is being a little generous and would argue more for a 6-month cutoff for people we don't know. By then, even if they did decide to come back for whatever reason, they're not going to know anyone and it's likely that nobody will remember them or why they joined. I know it's a little harsh, but it's sort of like inviting someone to a party that you only met once, years ago and you can't even remember how/where you met them. Bear in mind, I'm not talking about any of the community members we all know but the people that have never really been a part of the community.

[WarBlade]

Before I volunteer for anything, I'd like a bit more info on what's involved in running a wiki since this will be uncharted territory. The way I understand it, wikis are run pretty much admin free, with the admins that do exist running around fixing blatant typos, bad links, and cleaning up any vandalism that may appear; in other words, they're more editors than admins.

Sometimes. Admins tend to be more visible doing things like finalising policy and deleting orphaned pages as well as maybe not so visible with things like IP blocking vandals. The actual fixing of blatant typos, bad links and cleaning of vandalism tends to be more of a community driven effort. As an example, the old GWW page for [Fail] when they changed to [HoVa] ceased to be because I tagged it for deletion (after their disband and reform), which effectively submitted it to admin scrutiny to have the that guild page removed from the wiki. Quite often in large scale wikis an intermediate voluntary task force of helpers will operate as a clean up crew too - Anyone can fix vandalism.