Epic Forty-four: Denial of the Nile - Reports and Discussion

[Sirian]

I thought you were going to play this one. Surprising move to open, but wise and effective, as it turns out. Nicely done! Not much mention of barbarians. They did not give you any trouble at all? Or merely not enough to affect your game plan?

- Sirian

[Urugharakh]

They were nasty. But as soon as my capital reaches size 5 it made 10 spt, i.e. a vet spear or war charriot every 2 turns, with the occasional settler/worker when size 7 approaches. So my babarians paid their 25g tribut regulary. Nevertheless, the beginning felt like Epic 4 only with the new barbarians and the uprising in 1475 BC would have been terrible with the old plain Civ3 barbarians. No less than 4 villages along my border! Fortunately conquest Barbarians are bad for workers/settlers but harmless for already existing cities. The only real impact was their attack on the 2 settlers on their way towards the southern luxuries. But 2 companying spears were (barely) enough.

Urugharakh

[Ginger_Ale]

I thought you were going to play this one. Surprising move to open, but wise and effective, as it turns out. Nicely done! Not much mention of barbarians. They did not give you any trouble at all? Or merely not enough to affect your game plan?

- Sirian

Sirian, I did try this one out...however, this hard Deity game scared me away. It took me many turns just to reach the Zulu, and there was almost no chance of a recovery. Hopefully the next one will be Demi-God...but I don't mind.

[Kylearan]

I had completed this epic a week or so before the deadline, but never wrote a report for it. But this had been a very nice epic: Finally a more challenging game after several "easier" Epics, something I had explicitly wished for! It would be a shame to leave my game in the dark, so let's at least move it out into the shadows...

Thebes was founded right on the spot. Five game and two wine tiles looked great, but were effectively only like bonus grass with some extra commerce. No food bonus would hurt...

I built three warriors, a granary, a settler, and then some more warriors to scout and to defend against the raging barbs. My initial worker roaded the game, then roaded and mined the wine for some perfect happiness timing.

My scouts of course avoided popping any huts with the exception of one hut on a mountain (the scout survived the resulting barbs). Also because of the barbs, I chose to research bronze working after pottery, something I haven't done for some time.

Zulus were found in 2150BC, Hitties in 1750BC, Babylon in 1700BC. Babylon was already at war the the Zulus. About that time, Thebes was at a 7 turn cycle of producing two spears and a settler.

India was contacted in 1200BC, Sumeria in 1075BC, the Dutch in 975BC. I had shut down research after writing, and in 950BC was able to do my first multifer: For 140g and 19gpt, I bought CoL from India, which gave me philo and 4gpt from Sumeria, WC and wheel from the Zulus, and IW from Babylon. I started to research republic at "max" (20%) afterwards.

In 925BC, a massive uprising occured which slowed down my expansion considerably, but was fun to fight nonetheless. On the same turn, I met the Ottomans and Greece, and traded writing(!), CoL and philo to Greece for HBR, mathematics, mysticism and about 100 gold.

One of my scouts had quietly managed to sneak around a barb camp, but suddenly all barbs awoke and his end was near... :-)



In 10BC, the AIs complete Leo's, Sistine's, Cop's and Knight's Templar, while I finally discover republic and revolt. I had overestimated by potential to research on my own: "Max" research had resulted in something like 45 turns for republic...but I was able to trade it away to Babylon and Zulus for MM, construction, polytheism and literature.

Here's my empire after emerging from anarchy - note the income...



In 130AD, I lose my first settler protected by two spears and an archer to barb horses. At least they hadn't managed to sack one of my cities yet!

In 350AD, America leave the game after some dogpiling, and the Hitties start a dogpile on Greece. In 410AD, my FP is completed in Elephantine, and my income increases considerably. In 500AD, I trade away iron to Sumeria for invention and chivalry (extra iron is too powerful here...) and start to build knights. While I prepare to unhonorably attack Greece with my knights, the AIs are running around with cavalry already. This doesn't hinder me from joining the dogpile against Greece, though:



Sumeria and Iros are industrial already, but who cares? ;-) Another iron had bought me gunpowder earlier, but unfortunately the only saltpeter in reach is on the island to the north, owned by the Iros. That city has to be mine...but first, peace with Greece and war with Babylon was in order. A Babylonian horse city is captured while somebody already starts Univeral Suffrage... Looks like I won't get ToE this time...I haven't even banking yet. But knights! They took some time cross all the jungle, but then captured Shuruppak, and peace was made again in 750AD.

In 770AD, India is destroyed. Sumeria, on the other hand, now has over 40000 gold in the bank! (This will become very important later on...). Greece calls it quits in 800AD. In 890AD, I'm still one tech short of becoming industrial, and only have knights and pikemen while Iros have cavalry and rifles, but I *really* want that saltpeter city. So two galleons are loaded and moved into position, and...Sumeria declares war on the Iros! Nice. :-D I declare, too, buy France (and therefore the Dutch and the Ottomans via MPP) and capture the saltpeter city, which was only defended by muskets.

In 950AD, my extra iron finally catapults me into the industrial age, and I'm in 2-fer range again, while Babylon and Zulus are still waaay behind. Diplo looks like this, by the way:



In 1000AD, my land is 52500 and my culture 8145.

The Zulus get bought against me, so I start attacking them. In 1140AD, I capture their last city before the Hitties can.

In 1190AD, I really get nervous about my chances to get ToE, and manage to steal (monopoly) electricity from Sumeria. This gets me industrialization, espionage, sanitation, and corporation. Sumeria has refining, steel and scientific methods already... one turn later, the start to build ToE! I investigate Sumer and see they will complete it in 12 turns. I rush a factory in my iron works city El-amarna, hoping that this will be enough...and yes, it is, although barely. The resulting AT is traded around, and I start max research on combustion.

In 1340AD, when I would have gotten the Hoover Dam next turn, production in Thebes gets sabotaged, delaying it for six turns!!! Sumeria now has 20000 gold less in the bank, but still over 40k. Good that nobody has electronics yet. First time I saw sabotage used effectively! (But wait and see this topped...)

In 1360AD, the Hitties demand a tech, I refuse, and war is on me again. I get tanks the next turn, and instead of organizing a dogpile against Sumeria as I had planned, I buy Sumeria in against the Hitties.

In 1375AD, I could research the UN for a "fast"(?) finish mark, but I decide to go for conquest instead: That should yield more points, so I beeline to modern armor instead.

In 1410AD, Sumeria becomes modern and gets fission. They demand, I refuse: War! Okay, let's dance: It's me and Ottomans vs. Sumeria, and me vs. Hitties now (Sumeria and Hitties had made peace again already).

Of course I had prebuild the UN in Thebes to deny it to my opponents, but in 1425AD, it gets sabotaged *again*. Argh! Investigation shows that Sumeria and me will complete in UN in five turns - so it's very close again. Then...



...I lose the UN. Wow. Now *that* was effective (and expensive!) use of sabotage! Well, at least I get SETI, and since Sumeria never called for a vote, I got lucky this time. :-)

In 1525AD, I discover synthetic fibres, shut down research (won't need more techs) and switch to communism.

In 1570AD, I contol the southern choke point and decide to raze the rest. As usual, I lose some turns by building transports too late to conquer the islands, but who cares... (I had tried propaganda about 30 times against the islands, but to no avail)



That was a fun epic, thanks Sirian! Sorry for the late report, but I hope some people still find it worth the read, and some even worth a comment...?

-Kylearan

[Sirian]

I'm glad you enjoyed the game. Funny, you appreciated the challenge, yet after the AW game, we have some calls for tamping down on runaway difficulty factors.

Can't please all the folks all the time.

Never allowing a city to be sacked was impressive. I know that I set that as a scoring option, but then I also stacked the deck for the barbs, so it is all the more noteworthy. I probably would have passed on the option as a red herring, had I played.


- Sirian

[Kylearan]

Funny, you appreciated the challenge, yet after the AW game, we have some calls for tamping down on runaway difficulty factors.

The game was easier even than I had initially expected, most probably because I had luck with my scouts surviving until they had been able to make contact (and maybe because I sent enough...).

Never allowing a city to be sacked was impressive. I know that I set that as a scoring option, but then I also stacked the deck for the barbs, so it is all the more noteworthy. I probably would have passed on the option as a red herring, had I played.

Trying not to get my cities sacked suits my playstyle better than intentionally letting a city open to get rid of the massive uprising barbs. Also playing "safe" was a nice diversion from the normal game of civ3. Playing honorably, on the other hand, had been a red herring I gladly ignored.

Regarding the scoring, I'll do the easy, official one and mail it to Gris, but I'll probably also do a shadow one including all the late-reporters, like Uruk, Jabah, Grimjack etc. for comparison purposes.

-Kylearan

[Kylearan]

Well, with only two (finished) legal games plus two players who reported too late, scoring might be a bit silly, but since I liked the Epic and its scoring system, I thought I'd do it anyway.

First, the "real" scores:

Grimjack: 60(civs) + 25(victory) + 10(2nd fastest finish) + 5(most culture) = 100
Jabah: 20(civs) + 25(victory) + 15(fastest finish) + 15(honorable) + 5(most tiles) = 80

So congrats to Grimjack, who beats Jabah by destroying more civs!



Well, normally I wouldn't look at shadow games when it comes to scoring, but since it doubles the number of players, it might be interesting nonetheless...

Kylearan: 110(civs) + 25(victory) + 30(no sacked cities) + 5(most tiles) - 23(slow finish) = 147
Urugharak: 60(civs) + 25(victory) + 5(3rd fastest finish) + 15(honorable) + 30(no sacked cities) = 135
Grimjack: 60(civs) + 25(victory) + 10(2nd fastest finish) + 5(culture) = 100
Jabah: 20(civs) + 25(victory) + 15(fastest finish) + 15(honorable) = 75


Small analysis:

* The number of destroyed civs clearly was the deciding factor here. My victory happened 73 turns after the fastest finisher, but I would still have had the highest score.

* Tiles at 1000AD: Kylearan (525), Jabah (502), Grimjack (481), Urugharak (337)
Too bad we have no longer report with screenies from Urugh, but it's interesting to note the small amount of land he had in 1000AD. Is it because he founded his capital later, and ON the Nile, or maybe because he made a greater effort not getting sacked? If the latter, then why do I have the most land, and still got the "not sacked" bonus? Maybe because of this:

* Culture at 1000AD: Grimjack (11375), Urugharak (10214), Jabah (8714), Kylearan (8145)
Well, looks like Jabah and me had to build more important stuff than culture in the beginning.


The Diplo victories were relatively close, but I'm surprised I needed *so* much longer for the conquest victory.


Anyway, this is rather pointless, with only four players and only two legal games, but I thought this scenario deserved a small analysis.

-Kylearan

EDIT: I didn't realize that Jabah also played honorably.

[Sirian]

Thanks for the effort. Was interesting to see the results summarized.

[Urugharakh]

Too bad we have no longer report with screenies from Urugh, but it's interesting to note the small amount of land he had in 1000AD. Is it because he founded his capital later, and ON the Nile, or maybe because he made a greater effort not getting sacked? If the latter, then why do I have the most land, and still got the "not sacked" bonus? Maybe because of this:

* Culture at 1000AD: Grimjack (11375), Urugharak (10214), Jabah (8714), Kylearan (8145)
Well, looks like Jabah and me had to build more important stuff than culture in the beginning.

My capital was not only founded 6 turns later. It also lacked the food bonus provided my the fish lake for the initial position. This resulted in many less settlers and consequently less land. Contrary to population I had a very high production with a much higher productive core. The result was my high culture (despite my late start) and a solid military.

One question, though I should probably ask it as an answer to your report: Did you use lethal bombardment for your conquest?

Urugharakh

[Kylearan]

Ah yes, I forgot about the food bonus at the starting location. Small, but helpful.

One question, though I should probably ask it as an answer to your report: Did you use lethal bombardment for your conquest?

No, I didn't build a single bomber, IIRC only a couple of fighters. I know of the power of lethal bombardment, but I think it's overpowered, and I hate the logistics involved (rebasing etc.). I only used tanks, mech infantry and modern armor - and lots of 4-movement-MA-armies I hadn't mention in my report.

-Kylearan