[SPOILERS] Emissaries from the blighted lands; Mardoc and Jkaen take on the world!

[Mardoc]

So - shall we take Hannah as our second pick? I think she still fits pretty well, as a secondary techer with no real plan . People seem to have mostly disagreed with our thoughts on which civs are good for something like this - we still have most of our top choices left. Here they are in my approximate order of preference, at the moment:

Hannah: Good for teching. Bad at everything else, but Vamps ought to outweigh that.
Varn Gosam: Good for teching. Priests ought to go pretty well with Vamps - likely to make a bunch of them to lvl 6 and get them vampiric on top of everything else.
Balseraphs: Good at using arcane might. Not so good at most else. Although - there are dwarfs and elves and orcs and humans around, so we could use their slave cages to full effect.
Beeri Bawl: Fin/Ind is a great combination for backlines teching/wonder grabbing. Golems really don't fit well with vampires, though.
Hippus: Vanilla strong civ, horses - I think though that vamps + spectres ought to be able to cover the speed, and they're not much good at most else.
Sheaim: Good at, well, Zombie rush and Death mana abuse. Only that's pretty well covered by the Vamps, I would think - Moroi and Vamps are just about as good.


What's been grabbed so far, in case it's relevant:

Ochabid/Ravus - Kuriotates (Exp/Phi/Ada)
Definitely a 'with anything' pick, although I won't be surprised if they end up Hippus like we wanted, if we don't take it.

Us - Calabim (Fin/Org)

Thoth/Mr. Yellow - Clan (Barb/Agg/Org) and Amurites (Phi/Arc)
Clan for early going, amurites for late - possible weakness of no particular techers. They ought to spread like weeds, though.

Darrell/Ilios Ljosalfar (Cre/Spi) and Khazad (Agg/Fin)
Khazad for early, I assume? and Ljo for late, FoL econ. Definitely thinking along the same lines as we were, they grabbed two strong tech civs; although they don't have matching tech plans, they can make it work.

What do you think? Am I on the right track, or should we consider something else? And in particular, what do you think of the order I've got - we've got to pick one as tops, after all.

[Gaspar]

I think you could flip a coin on Malakim vs Lanun, and nobody else should be in the conversation. Malakim won't get the flavor start bonus of flood plains a-go-go, but their spiritual menace will allow you to supplement the Vamps better than Lanun's nothing will. Lanun will tech faster than anyone given any amount of water, and its not like they're useless on land either. Rhoanna should be the only other voice in the conversation, but like I said, she's a bit too meh at everything for my tastes. I can argue for either Varn or Hannah all day long and would be quite pleased with either. The main argument for Malakim is that they'll be able to back up the Vamps sooner while they're teching to Feudalism. The main argument for Lanun is they'll get you to Feud sooner. I think I'd go Malakim after some consideration, but I think Lanun is pretty much 100% equal as an option.

The Thoth/Mr. Yellow pairing makes no sense to me. I feel like Mr. Yellow is basically the TT of FFH - he's been so burned by his inability to fight off the hordes in his first game, he's going to be going crazy with the warmongering in every game from here on out to compensate. Clan could be nasty with a strong techer to back them up... but Dain? How are those two ever going to research anything in a game with this many power-techers? If that works I'll eat my hat.

I'd bet Ichabod/Ravus take Sheaim or Bals, but that's total conjecture. Not sure if you want to consider that in your plans.

[Mardoc]

I think you could flip a coin on Malakim vs Lanun, and nobody else should be in the conversation.

Hmm. Well, Malakim is less terrain dependent; he can still work just fine with no floodplains, while Hannah really needs ocean/lakes to be special. Maybe we should go ahead with Malakim here. Anyhow, assuming you're blitzing with us tomorrow (PBEM6), Jkaen, we can chat in between turns and nail this down. Or if you have a strong preference between the two, just go ahead and submit it as our second choice.

The Thoth/Mr. Yellow pairing makes no sense to me. I feel like Mr. Yellow is basically the TT of FFH - he's been so burned by his inability to fight off the hordes in his first game, he's going to be going crazy with the warmongering in every game from here on out to compensate. Clan could be nasty with a strong techer to back them up... but Dain? How are those two ever going to research anything in a game with this many power-techers? If that works I'll eat my hat.

Ok, it wasn't just me questioning this one. So long as we don't get warrior rushed or killed by FtH, we ought to be able to make sure they never make it to Arcane Lore, so yeah, Amurites will be wasted. Oh, another bit of :weed: - Amurites, with all kinds of bonuses to variety of mana, paired with...Body/Fire! All they gain is Nature from the Orcs. I really get the feeling they went for early game/late game, without seriously considering what they bring to the table.

I'd bet Ichabod/Ravus take Sheaim or Bals, but that's total conjecture. Not sure if you want to consider that in your plans.

Really? Well, if that's what they want, that's what they get. I think Hippus goes much better with that, but what do I know?

[Jkaen]

I agree with the Mr Yellow comments, Sheim Amurite I could understand more, but that makes no sense.

As for Darrel doesnt the khazad world spell turn all the nice forests into hills?

As for our choice I think Lanun leaves us too open early doors to agreession, so I would prefer Varn.

Also something from Thoths intro thread for Malakim

With Fanatacism, the appropriate religion and a temple of that religion, LBs can upgrade to Paramanders/Crusaders/Stygian Guards.

Since we seem to have solid agreement on Varn I will pick that for us

[Selrahc]

As for Darrel doesnt the khazad world spell turn all the nice forests into hills?

Despite centuries of bitter struggle, Forests and Hills have actually learned to coexist peacefully.

[Jkaen]

Had a quick play on the tech tree to find out likely tech paths, see spoiler below (large shot)

[Jkaen]

Ahh, I thought the spell just turned them into hills, rather than add the hill class to whatever was already there

[Selrahc]

Ahh, I thought the spell just turned them into hills, rather than add the hill class to whatever was already there

Nope. Just turns things into hills. Floodplain hills are a possibility. And all existing tile improvements stick around.

[Jkaen]

Looks like I will be going Malakim and Mardoc Vampires

[Mardoc]

Looks like I will be going Malakim and Mardoc Vampires

Vell, I need to polish my Transvanian accent, then, no?

Or do I need to make things all sparkly?

Maybe I'll just settle for a Dresden Files type vampire and be ruthless and competent.