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Are you, in fact, a pregnant lady who lives in the apartment next door to Superdeath's parents? - Commodore |
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[SPOILERS] I am serious...and don't call me Grimace
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Ok, now I'm home and have had a chance to think about things.
So I have 3 visible resources at my start (I see no reason not to SIP, given that this is not a random map): two that require Hunting, and one that require AH. It would be preferable to pick a civ with Hunting (though I would be able to research it before the worker was built, so it's not absolutely necessary). Civs that start with Hunting: Aztecs (Hunting/Myst) Celts (Hunting/Myst) Ethiopia (Hunting/Mining) Germany (Hunting/Mining) Greece (Hunting/Fishing) HRE (Hunting/Myst) Khmer (Hunting/Mining) Mongolia (Hunting/Wheel) Native Amer (Hunting/Wheel) Persia (Agriculture/Hunting) Russia (Hunting/Mining) Viking (Hunting/Fishing) Zulu (Agriculture/Hunting) Agr/Hun is a favorable combination as it gets me AH faster, but Hunt/Min is as well, as that gets BW faster. Since I have no sea-based resources, Fishing is something of a waste unless I desperately want the UU or UB. One thing that looks interesting to me right out of the gate (as I've been pondering an Industrious leader) is Stalin of Mali. Agg/Ind, which combines well with the Mint, providing not only a decrease in city maintenance, but a bonus to commerce on a cheap building. Additionally, the Skirmisher is a pretty good unit in RtR, getting a bonus against Swordsmen. Starting techs are good (Mining/Wheel) -- I'd have to research Hunting right out of the gate, but I would not have to worry about idle worker turns for a long time. The Khmer is another interesting choice. I know I'll have the necessary resources for it's UU, and the Baray is a pretty good UB. If I went Khmer, I would want to shoot for an EXP leader for the cheap UB. Maybe Bismarck (Exp/Ind)? Persia also has a strong appeal for the strong UB and both Agr/Hun for quick AH. The apothecary, while not an amazing UB, isn't among the worst. It would pair well with a CHA leader who has the extra happiness to allow a lot of growth post-Math. Unfortunately, it's hard to be sure of what you want until the snake pick gets to you, and I'm near the bottom, so no idea if what I want will be picked by then or not. We'll see what's taken by the time it gets to me.
I'm a little surprised by an Inca pick. The Quecha is a great UU, but obsoletes quickly, and the UB is nothing to write home about unless you're aiming for a cultural victory, so I guess maybe Gawdzak is going to go for an early rush and take out one of his neighbors? Even the starting techs are a strange choice...unless maybe he wants to go for the Henge. Maybe he is setting up for a cultural win? No obvious benefit to that choice, but as he is an experienced player he's clearly got some kind of plan in mind.
January 5th, 2015, 21:05
(This post was last modified: January 5th, 2015, 21:06 by SevenSpirits.)
Inca is always picked for the UB, which pops your borders early without having to build monuments or spread religion.
 (January 5th, 2015, 21:05)SevenSpirits Wrote: Inca is always picked for the UB, which pops your borders early without having to build monuments or spread religion. That makes sense. I didn't think of it from that point of view...that it's a building basically every city needs that produces culture now. Anyway, all the choices are in, and I'll offer my (inexperienced) thoughts on the players and choices, but first, a breakdown of traits: AGG - 2 CHA - 1 CRE - 1 EXP -3 FIN - 3 IMP -4 IND - 1 ORG - 4 PHI - 1 PRO - 2 SPI - 2 So every trait is represented, with a lot of love for Imperialistic and Organized Krill - Joao (Exp/Imp) of HRE I've never played in a game with Krill, but from his comments in other games and my read through of some of the previous ones, he seems a competant, knowlegable player. He obviously seemed very excited that he was able to make this choice, and I can easily see why: REX, REX, REX. Joao is notorious for his REX in SP play, and he has the best traits to do it quickly, being IMP/EXP. The marriage with HRE and its Rathaus will work VERY well for Krill once he gets CoL. Fast settlers + 75% off city maintenance? Yes please! I would expect to see his empire explode in a shower of cities, and would not be surprised at all if he manages to have the most cities until war breaks out. The only thing that might be better than this would be JC and his IMP/ORG. Org would make those Rathauses cheaper and save even more money by cutting civic expenses in half. EXP doesn't seem quite as beneficial as happiness is usually the limiting factor for a while rather than health. The HRE starts with Hunting/Mysticism, so he may have a start that includes pasturable resources like me. He may also shoot for one of the early religions with a Mysticism start. Thoth - Sury (Cre/Exp) of France I honestly have no idea what kind of player Thoth is, as this will be my first experience with him at all. Sury is a decent choice. Creative doesn't seem to get much play in PB games, but it does have the huge advantage of popping city borders quickly, allowing a lot more flexibility in city placement in the early game. As he's the only Creative leader in the game, I expect his neighbors will not be very fond of him. It also discounts the French UB, though it comes much later in the game at Astro. Not much needs to be said about the French UU, the Musketeer, as it's a solid unit during the early Gunpowder era. France also has great starting techs with Agriculture and the Wheel. With his fast workers, they'll always have something to do even if he runs out of resources to improve. Commodore - Saladin (Pro/Spi) of the Celts Commodore also seems to be considered a pretty good player. I don't recall reading any of his game threads, so I can't say for sure, but Saladin was definitely an interesting choice. Spiritual is always handy for switching civics and religions without penalty, and Protective is definitely better in the mod than in BtS. Celts seems like a decent choice here as well. He gets to build the UB fast (and it's cheap to begin with), and the Gallic Warrior, especially in combination with the Dun, is nothing to sneeze at, even for an axe. He starts with Hunting and Mysticism, so I wonder who will get the first religion this game? Grimace - Roosevelt (Ind/Org) of Khmer I'm still pretty inexperienced in MP civ. In particular, my micro is sub-optimal. Expect to see me towards the back of the pack for much of the game because I won't be able to maximize my outcomes as much as most of the other players. As the only Industrious leader, though, expect me to try to nab a few critical wonders (and maybe some non-critical ones), especially if I have stone or marble. I chose the Khmer because I know I have what I need for it's UU (which is not always the case), the starting techs are good (Hunting/Mining), and I really like the Baray. An aqueduct that gives free food? I'll take it! Expect me to prioritize Math and Masonry to open it up, and don't be too surprised if I make a go at the Hanging Gardens as a result. yuris - Darius (Fin/Org) of Persia The only person playing the actual leader and civ combination. I have no idea what kind of player yuris is, either. But he picked good choices. Persia was on my short list of civs, as it has great starting techs (Agriculture/Hunting) and a fantastic UU (though you're not guaranteed Horses to get it). The UB I can take or leave. I suspect it's more useful on very high difficulty where you run out of health more quickly. Otherwise not a great deal of synergy between the two choices, though both are good enough on their own. GermanJoJo - Justinian (Imp/Spi) of Aztecs I've seen several games GJ has been in, and he's a pretty good player. Obviously looking for the faster REX with Imperialistic, and Spiritual makes a good pair with the Aztecs if you take advantage of their Mysticism starting tech to go for an early religion. Religion + cheap temples = who needs Creative or Monuments? Aztecs start with Hunting as well and have a good UB and adequate UU. Not needing Iron is nice, but otherwise the Jaguar is meh unless you have a map that provides you with a lot of foliage. The Sacrificial Altar, though, in combination with Spiritual means you can switch to Slavery any time you need to, whip all of your cities, wait 5 turns for the unhappiness to go away, whip them again, then switch to another Civic. I would definitely expect to see him use the whip a lot. Wetbandit - Julius Caesar (Imp/Org) of China Wetbandit is also a pretty good player -- certainly better than me. We're teamed up on PB23, so I have an idea of how he plays, and he's definitely better at micro than me. The only limitation for him is going to be whether he has enough time to do the necessary simming and such. JC is a great leader, with two good REX traits. China is also a decent civ, with good starting techs (Agriculture/Mining) and a great UU. Of course the UB isn't that awesome (a theater that gives +25% culture?), and I would probably modify it a bit were I the mod author. Seems like something like +1 happy would make it more competitive. Or maybe it's left that way as a counter-weight to the UU. Anyway, I'm guessing he has farmable resources rather than pasturable ones like me in his start, or perhaps one of each. Elkad - Alexander (Agg/Phi) of Sumeria Another player I have no knowledge of. He did choose the only Philosophical leader in the game, so I would expect to see him focus on great people. Maybe take a shot at the Parthenon. He's also Aggressive, which can never been discounted as these games often turn into orgies of destruction. Sumeria is a good civ, with good techs (Agriculture/The Wheel), a great UU and a pretty good UB, though it does require a detour to Priesthood to unlock. On the other hand, it's a cheap courthouse that you can unlock well before CoL, and it gives you an excuse to go for the Oracle. I wouldn't be surprised to see him do that, and maybe even end up with an early religion if someone else doesn't nab them all. Luddite - Victoria (Fin/Imp) of India I've no personal experience of Luddite, though he seems to be considered (or was considered) a good player. I guess this will be his return, so we'll see how it goes. Another member of the Imperialistic club, I would expect to see some REXing here, with lots of cottages. India is always a popular civ choice for the Fast Worker, which is probably one of the best UUs in the game. Starting techs are ok, but not usually preferred (Mysticism/Mining), but the UB is also really good, if only available later in the game. I might have gone with an EXP leader for India to get faster Fast Workers as there's little synergy between the leader and civ here, but we all have our plans. Retep - Boudica (Agg/Cha) of Mongolia I've seen retep play some, and he seems like a competent player. He definitely made a warmongers choice this game -- his leader has the two best warmonger traits; Aggressive and Charismatic -- and he chose a civ with a warmonger UU and UB (1 XP short of 3 promotions right out of the gate for Keshiks? Thanks!). The only two good things about this are that the UU doesn't benefit directly from Aggressive, and if he doesn't have horses his civ choice is basically wasted. Since most maps provide all of the strategic resources near everyone, though, I'd be surprised if he didn't have them. Mongolia also has good starting techs with Hunting and The Wheel. Donovan Zoi - Mehmed (Exp/Org) II of Zulu DZ seems like a decent player, better than me for sure, but still fairly squishy judging by previous PB games. Mehmed is, of course, a great leader with two great traits that go well together (he is, in fact, the leader wetbandit and I are playing in PB23). And the Zulu are an awesome civ. The Ikhanda is a great UB, as it provides an excuse to build a barracks everywhere and make sure every unit you produce comes with a promotion, and the Impi is a pretty decent UU for its time. If he doesn't do well this game, it certainly won't be because of bad civ choices. The Zulu also has one of the best starting tech combos in Agriculture/Hunting. Gawdzak - Wang Kon (Fin/Pro) of Inca Gawdzak is a very good player, so I expect to see him do well regardless. That being said, his leader/civ has some good synergy. Protective gives him the cheap granary, and the Incans have their UB granary that produces culture. Sort of a poor man's way of getting a third trait (creative), as you almost always build granaries in every city, anyway. Of course, the Incan UU is amazingly good as long as your opponent doesn't have Archery, Copper, Iron, or Horses. So though Quechas are wonderful in the first couple dozen turns, they sort of cease to matter after that. He also has a Mysticism start, combined with The Wheel. Should be interesting to see who gets the first religions with all of these Mysticism starts. Given that no one chose a civ with Fishing as the starting tech, I'm guessing that no one has a coastal start with seafood. Rome, particularly, is always a popular choice, but no one wants to waste a starting tech on Fishing if they don't have to. 
After Grimace explained to me that "homophones" aren't some kind of telephone especially made for gay people, I have to give public credit for the great prophet haiku.
As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master. - Commissioner Pravin Lal, "U.N. Declaration of Rights"
 Let the games begin! So first off, I settled in place, because why do anything else on a non-random map.   EDIT: Can't work the pigs yet, dummy! Started building a worker and working the elephants, which gives me that +1 commerce over working the sheep. As I'm not EXP, it doesn't matter whether they're hammers or food, it's all grist for the mill. Now onto the DIFFICULT decisions. First, where to move the scout?  3-2 looks like a good start. As a general rule, I like to sweep the immediate area around my capital, then explore further afterwards. I don't know how everyone else does it, but that seems to me of critical importance for deciding on your first couple of cities, especially if you lose your scout to a barb. And second, what to research? I start with Hunting/Mining, a great combination. So in my head there are basically three options: - Agriculture, because farms will be needed and it speeds up AH. - AH, takes a little longer than doing Ag first, but we'll still get it before we would going Ag->AH. - BW, obviously a major priority. I haven't crunched any numbers yet, but I'll be curious to see how long it takes to do each of those. If I have a lurker who knows off the top of their head, I would appreciate the assistance. So, who has an opinion they'd like to share?
Turn 1 (continued)
I did some quick calculations that I hope are correct. Agriculture is 10 turns right now. AH is 14. BW is 16. If I research Agr first, AH gets shortened to 12 turns. I already decided not to go with BW right off the bat, as AH has a more immediate benefit for me. So: Agr (10) -> AH (12) = 22 turns to AH AH right away = 14 turns to AH Because my two food resources don't require agriculture, I picked AH as my first tech. So I'll have it a couple of turns after my worker is completed, and unless something changes during my scouting to change my mind, I'll probably go BW second. I also moved the setter 3-2 and revealed:  An Oasis!  Caledorn and I were talking online and he thought it might be a flood plains, while I suspected it was desert. Whoops! Also some more sheep nearby for a future city...I like seeing that. However, it does slightly affect my thoughts on how to move the scout. I was going to go 3-2 again into the forest, but now I'm thinking about 6-6 onto the hill, or possibly 9-9 onto that hill. Either one would match my overall scouting plans. I think I'm leaning toward 9-9, as that would give me an idea if I would be better off going counterclockwise or clockwise around the city, but I'm open to other arguments.
Wow...just looked at civstats and...I'm depressed now.
 Thoth must have gotten 2 techs from huts as his score increased by 6 last turn, then 6 again this turn. Elkad also got a 6 point boost, which must also have been a hut-tech. I haven't even seen a hut yet.  I'm pretty sure that there's no other way to get a 12-point bump by Turn 3. |
