[SPOILERS] Emperor K, Cornflakes, what could go wrong?

[Cornflakes]

My first though on seeing the picks was "how likely are 3 opponents going to grab quick religions" ... Probably not likely, but Stonehenge is the wildcard. Russia surely will, probably right out of the gate. Japan probably as an early-ish 2nd. Unfortunately neither Germany nor Rome have a particular impetus to get a religion. If I had to pick one, I'd say Rome builds Stonehenge since they will have a stronger start. If Japan builds Stonehenge then we might be in for a long wait for the free prophet. I think it still makes sense to wait for the free prophet, at least until it comes naturally from eventual building of HS/Shrine/Temples. I wouldn't do anything drastic like Divine Spark, early HS, or running GProphet projects. 

I played a test game a couple of weeks ago as Arabia since I was considering them as a pick. Here are some take-aways I got out of the game:

• I already mentioned above, culture is far more important early on as it unlocks the religious line of civics. In addition, culture is necessary to reach Feudalism and unlock the eureka for Mamluks. 
  
• Early HS has almost no value for Arabia. Someone else is surely going to get those first 2 religions, therefore the only benefit of an early HS is a trickle of Faith that can't do anything yet. A campus makes more sense early on as the district to get the State Workforce eureka. The point where HS started making sense was once Scripture was unlocked at Theology to boost faith by 100%. This is also about the time that the free prophet landed.
  
• The worship building are very cheap, but the limiting factor there is getting the Shrine + Temple constructed. And there are quite a diverse selection of bonuses on the worship buildings ... I'll discuss those in a separate post in the future
  
• Faith didn't return a whole lot for the investment immediately. It was only after reaching Theocracy for unit purchases that it really paid off. Warrior Monks might provide an opportunity to push that payoff earlier. Looking at the promotion tree, they actually have some powerful promotions available (strength buffs and special abilities like converting cities when killing units). I think a test game with Arabia + Warrior Monks is in order. 
  

I don't think the first 50 or so turns will change much regardless of whether we go for a religious victory or a more standard game. Some general thoughts on the opening, which are mostly applicable to all civs ... In broad strokes I envision something like this:

1. [first 25 turns] Early 2x slinger + builder + settler (in some order). I am firmly in the "settler before builder unless there are 3 +1 improvements at the capital" mindset. Ultimately the starting terrain and early scouting will drive the final decision. I could be convinced to swap one of the slingers for a scout, especially with Pangea map.
   
2. [T25-50] one of the following, depending on the surroundings
   a) Another early settler if excellent site is available, otherwise wait for Colonization. Then fill out army to capture CS (see B).
   b) Fill out army up to total of 3x slinger (upgrade > archer) + 2-3x warrior for early CS capture. The CS should have a monument built by this time for a 2-3 turn repair, and the science from 3 pop points outweighs even a scientific city state +2 in capital. Unless the quests are easy and Suzerain bonus excellent it's probably better to capture early.
   
3. [T50-75] With Colonization in place, and military already from #2, pump out a couple settlers in Colonization. Get a district built for State Workforce eureka. 
   
4. [T75-125] Start specializing based on the unique abilities of our civ, and the mid-game that we want to play. In general, start getting HS > Shrine > Temple built throughout the empire. By this time though (if not earlier) there is a lot more going on in the game that we'll have to respond to, neighbors rushing GG, possibilities for additional CS captures, etc., etc.
   

[Cornflakes]

WALL OF TEXT WARNING!

Well Arabia it is.

I am not sure if we can successfully pull off a Religious Victory. However I do think warrior monks and Mamluks can come around the same time. Maybe That is a good route to war on a neighbor all while trying to spread religion?

The timing for Warrior Monks does seem like it would work well for a push to Mamluks. Let's flesh that out a bit:

Starting with the absolute minimum tech path to get Knights:




Green dots represent essential techs. I included Astrology as essential since we definitely want to build Holy Sites in anticipation of landing the free prophet. Masonry was included as essential for the Ram, and also since chop overflow is very efficient with the policy card in place. Irrigation will likely be necessary to connect amenities. A couple things that stand out to me in looking at this:

1. All eurekas are easily achievable.
   
2. The only district that is unlocked is the HS. This could lead to an opportunity later on to achieve the 40% discount on all other district types when we start unlocking them.
   
3. Iron Working is not unlocked for swords, and we will be shooting for Warrior Monks as our melee. Therefore we will not have much use for warriors later on as upgrade fodder, and therefore might not make sense to build many (any?) beyond our starting warrior. We will want Heavy Chariots for later upgrade, therefore early military builds (other than slingers/archers) might be better directed into Heavy Chariots.
   
4. Military Tradition is essential for Maneuver to boost Heavy Chariot production. If it makes sense to build HC rather than warrior, then maybe the unorthodox push straight to Military Tradition on the civics tree might be suitable?
   
5. Without Campuses we will lag significantly in tech early on. The biggest danger when lagging in tech is that a neighbor will attack with military edge. Since our tech push will be for Mamluk we will not be lacking in military, but rather economy. We would definitely 100% need to make the military pay off if we did go this route.
   
6. Gold is going to be very tight without Commercial Hubs or additional trade routes. We would need to treat every penny as precious for upgrade gold. 
   

The more I think about this, Warrior Monks seem to have anti-synergy with a Mamluk rush. Production is going to be our limiting factor I think. In order to generate faith to purchase Warrior Monks we need to build Holy Sites + Shrines + Temples ... in order to rush someone with Mamluk we need to build Heavy Chariots. I fear that trying to do both will leave us with mediocre achievement of both. Plus in order to rush someone we really would like to gave a GGeneral (which requires Encampments) and Mercenaries for Professional Army (which takes us off the beeline to Reformed Church)

The real issue to me is that faith production ramps up slowly with Arabia, hitting a first boost at Scripture policy in Theology, and really hitting it's stride at Simultaneum policy with Reformed Church after having time to build Worship Building everywhere. Warrior Monks seems more suitable to a civ with high early faith generation. Also, Warrior Monks might help us eat a neighbor but by that time the next neighbor will have Knights + Crossbows themselves which will mow down Warrior Monks. The more I think about it, the more I dislike Warrior Monks.

I do like the tech path though in general, maybe tweaking it to pick up Writing earlier. Pushing for Mamluk gives us a military unit which can deter aggression from our neighbors. We can take Wats as our worship building so that our early HS/Shrine/Temple/Worship Building push help us catch up in science later. Religious Communities might make sense for our follower belief because we will want to get our worship building everywhere which means shrines + temples everywhere. The extra housing will translate to extra pop which means we can pretty easily hit size 10 for 3rd district everywhere.

[Cornflakes]

Also, don’t feel pressured to do anything I suggest! I enjoy planning and strategizing and theorizing, but ultimately you are the one that has to live with the decisions so done let me sway you into paths you’d rather not travel

Throughout the game I’ll probably post Evil Plots ™ to invade our opponents. I wouldn’t recommend acting on most of them! ... but if one of them happens to fit in with the Grand Scheme, then

[Emperor K]

Trying to get out of work early today, so not much time for forum browsing.

Will take a closer look at your posts a bit later tonight and over the weekend. Updated my forum helper to track district costs. So just working on the export for the forums so I can keep you informed of score, and districts.

Is there any other info that you would really like to know. I will post more screenshots since your going to be helping me and won't have the game in front of you.

[Cornflakes]

A copy of the current save approximately every Friday to peruse over the weekend would be nice.

[Emperor K]

sure

[Woden]

Here is your start...




Good luck!

[Emperor K]

Um settle in place. I like the spot. What do you think?

[Cornflakes]

I agree that settle in place looks pretty obvious, with Animal Husbandry for first tech. And if any start screams “builder before settler”, this might be it. That hills forest silk tile looks amazing and also helps boost early culture weakness. It should be the first tile claimed

Scout first might make sense on a Pangea to get an earlier understanding of the geopolitical situation and make CS contacts. Maxing food with March rice the entire time gets scout on T9 and builder T16. Maxing production (never working rice) gets scout T6, builder T14 with the horse acquired just in time to improve. Working rice until size 2 then swapping to sheep + GFH gets scout on T8, builder T14. Moral of the story, it looks better to either max food by always working the rice, or max production by never working the rice (as opposed to a hybrid).

Builder first completes on T12 maxing food, however the horse tile is not yet acquired in time to go sheep > horse > rice. Growing to size 2 on the rice and then maxing production at size 2 gets builder T10, but is worse off in the long run because the capital is a size smaller and can’t work horse + sheep + rice + silk and has to give one up for about 7 turns. Better to max food if going Builder first.

If we go Slinger first gets the builder on T17 with max food, but builder can go straight from Sheep > Horse. So in terms of production is only 5 turns slower on sheep and 1 turn slower on horse (6 production) in exchange for about 6 turns earlier slinger for additional scouting and barb security.

Take that analysis for what it’s worth. I see merits to either slinger first (extra barb security) or scout first, but don’t like Builder first because I find it is prone to disruption from barbs, which negates the benefit of getting the builder out quicker.

God of the open sky looks promising for pantheon (and it would help cover the early weakness in culture). Goddess of the harvest would be good for religious / faith purchasing of units at Theoceacy. It would also be useful for denial to the team that gets Jesuit Education. With Silk boosting us by about 2 turns to Code of Laws i’d probably go God King over Urban Planning to get an earlier pantheon.

[Emperor K]

I always start scout. The chance of getting even 1 more CS I think is worth it. Also working the rice to grow to size 4 as you said is the best option. We have 4 great tiles to work. Builder second due to there being 3 tiles that can be improved with one tech (animal husbandry). Probably will need a slinger after that or go straight into a settler.

Lets see how many more pastures show up. We may be in a crazy marshland with Lady of the Reeds showing true promise. I place production, especially extra early production very high on my list. Always holds value in my opinion. I do like the idea of Goddess of the harvest though.

Is the tile picker going to get us both silk and horses before Code of Laws is done? Also which one or will it be random?