[SPOILERS] TheArchduke blasts into Space as Russia

[Sullla]

Two quick points of agreement:

* Definitely not worth delaying settling to finish Ancestral Hall. Whenever the settlers are in position, go ahead and plant the cities. I was suggesting that this was a good time to work on getting the Ancestral Hall done as soon as possible, not an argument in favor of delaying settling.

* I agree on potentially using faith to patronage Hypatia - as you said, it denies her to someone else. But only if you're over 50/60 points invested and the faith cost is less than 300. Do not patronage for more than 300 faith, it's not worth it. At 200-250 faith she's worth it, not for more than that. Think we're all in agreement here.

[TheArchduke]

Turn 58

A days pause. We are faced with 2 small conundrums.

First off to shoot or not to shoot the horseman. In light of bringing Rise of the Atreides (now renamed to Atreides Gain) online and moving it, I decided to stay and fight. If the Horseman attack us we won´t die but can run for safety. If that happens I will clear the barb camp, 2 era score be damned. I can not afford another spawn of a horseman like this turn.

   

So, we shoot to kill. Hell march starts on a quick shrine (gotta keep that faith income skyhigh) to enable a missionary and further the line a temple if we need one. The Ancestral Hall is 13 turns and growth 8 turns at Fogger and I return to the initial plan of using the trade to boost fogger. The Ancestral Hall is more important and with 2 more turns to go till the era end, I am really asking myself if we should hold off founding our cities till we can get the ancestral hall in place.
Also the trade at Just do It could tempt that Roman scout to plunder it.

   

I know what you guys will say, but still, 3-4 turns of delay? Those builder charges do not fall off the tree. Then again, we can also use 70 faith to get those builders, so... eh.
Should we not go for the audience hall instead, especially if we do a bunch of lvl 1 governors?

   

One more for good measure. Is Just do It in the right place? Look at those 2 fishes. I do not think we want to move though, we already added a harbor tundra city and we do not want to overdo it. Still..

   

Yeah, by one turn I do not manage to sneak south. Ah well my scout will have to turn west. I need more information about the Cree then I need about Rome.

[Sullla]

The randomness of barbarian horsemen popping up is one of the absolute worst parts of Civ6. You could get easily killable 20 strength warriors, or you could get 4 movement 35 strength horses, with the complete dumb luck or whether or not a horse resource happens to be nearby dictating the outcome. I think your archer will be OK because it got in the first shot, it's on excellent defensive terrain, and it doesn't have to take damage while attacking whereas the barbarian horse does. The whole thing is still obnoxious though, and let's hope that you can clear the camp without further trouble.

By the way, did you decide to move Atreides a tile southeast? The map pin is still in the same spot so it wasn't entirely clear to me.

What did you ultimately decide to do with the trader? It wasn't clear from the report. It sounded like you created a trade route from Fogger back to the capital, is that correct (?) When it comes to the Ancestral Hall, I am in favor of trying to build it to completion as soon as possible, and also not to delay founding cities while waiting for the free builders. Maybe if the settler only has to wait 1-2 turns, I guess we'll see. This doesn't have to be decided right now since the settlers aren't ready yet.

I also saw a mention of the Audience Chamber which was really strange to me. Why would Russia want that? +3 housing in cities with governors isn't anything to write home about and is far inferior to getting a free builder with every new city founded. We're only talking about picking up four governors in the whole game (Pingala, Liang, Magnus, Amani) and Amani doesn't even get stationed in one of your own cities. This is a total no-brainer and it feels weird that it even came up in the last turn report. The Ancestral Hall is by far the best choice as far as I'm concerned. Remember, any faith spent on builders or patronage is faith not spent on a settler - it all adds up.

Regarding Just Do It: you could potentially place the city one tile west of the current spot, where the wheat resource is currently located. This would open up the potential for a coastal city at the mouth of the river to the east. I don't know that the terrain over there is strong enough to justify that but it would be another potential coastal city. This isn't something I feel too strongly about either way, you could make a case both for the currently marked tile where the settler is standing and also moving a tile west to open up the coastal spot in the east. Fourth city appearing next turn either way.

What exact turn does the Golden Age start? Turn 60 or Turn 61? It's about to begin as well.

[TheArchduke]

The randomness of barbarian horsemen popping up is one of the absolute worst parts of Civ6. You could get easily killable 20 strength warriors, or you could get 4 movement 35 strength horses, with the complete dumb luck or whether or not a horse resource happens to be nearby dictating the outcome. I think your archer will be OK because it got in the first shot, it's on excellent defensive terrain, and it doesn't have to take damage while attacking whereas the barbarian horse does. The whole thing is still obnoxious though, and let's hope that you can clear the camp without further trouble.

By the way, did you decide to move Atreides a tile southeast? The map pin is still in the same spot so it wasn't entirely clear to me.

What did you ultimately decide to do with the trader? It wasn't clear from the report. It sounded like you created a trade route from Fogger back to the capital, is that correct (?) When it comes to the Ancestral Hall, I am in favor of trying to build it to completion as soon as possible, and also not to delay founding cities while waiting for the free builders. Maybe if the settler only has to wait 1-2 turns, I guess we'll see. This doesn't have to be decided right now since the settlers aren't ready yet.

I also saw a mention of the Audience Chamber which was really strange to me. Why would Russia want that? +3 housing in cities with governors isn't anything to write home about and is far inferior to getting a free builder with every new city founded. We're only talking about picking up four governors in the whole game (Pingala, Liang, Magnus, Amani) and Amani doesn't even get stationed in one of your own cities. This is a total no-brainer and it feels weird that it even came up in the last turn report. The Ancestral Hall is by far the best choice as far as I'm concerned. Remember, any faith spent on builders or patronage is faith not spent on a settler - it all adds up.

Regarding Just Do It: you could potentially place the city one tile west of the current spot, where the wheat resource is currently located. This would open up the potential for a coastal city at the mouth of the river to the east. I don't know that the terrain over there is strong enough to justify that but it would be another potential coastal city. This isn't something I feel too strongly about either way, you could make a case both for the currently marked tile where the settler is standing and also moving a tile west to open up the coastal spot in the east. Fourth city appearing next turn either way.

What exact turn does the Golden Age start? Turn 60 or Turn 61? It's about to begin as well.

Yeah, barb horseman camps can be a pain if you do not have discipline and some warriors or some archers.

Atreides was moved.

The Trader is from Fogger to Hellmarch for +3 .

Ancestral Hall makes more sense, but maybe with a slight delay of settling to actually take advantage of it.

Golden Age is turn 61.

Anyway, quick turn report.

Turn 59

In a turn of ridiculous luck, Just do It upgrades its volcanic tile just in time. I settle for a loss of 3 era points, but I do not want to delay growth and expansion as I need 2 pop for a faith settler buy.

   

So I settle down:

   

We are close behind another play in GS points, he got 5, we have 4.6.

   

And our archer takes a huge hit by the horseman.

   

Absolutely tired, I do hope I can make the turn 60 report longer.

[Sullla]

You never once mentioned in this thread that your family was about to increase by one size. Congratulations!

OK, as far as the Civ6 turn goes, that was a break of awesome luck having the nearby volcano erupt again and add fertility to those tiles. Act On Instinct is going to be an amazing city now - the only thing that it lacked was food and it just picked up a 4/1 tile. Also, is that a 6 faith tile at Crater Lake, and a 1/3/3 faith tundra hill tile? Excellent stuff. Just Do It will grow to size 2 in four turns and a settler can be instantly faith-purchased there and routed to the Act On Instinct site. You might want to move the warrior at Just Do It into the narrow pass so that the various units from other players don't block the settler when it pops out.

That Cornflakes scout is now trapped by the expanding Russian borders. If he doesn't have the ability to embark on the sea, he's going to be there for a while.

You might actually catch up to the other competing player for Hypatia, or at least make the race really close. When the Campus district finishes at Funky in 2 turns, the Great Scientist points will go up to 5.8 per turn, closing the gap by 0.8 points each turn. I think you still lose the race but you'll be at 51.5 points in five turns and 57.3 points in six turns. That's going to be close enough to thinking about spending faith on patronage if the unknown player doesn't run a Scientist project or increase their Scientist output. Let's keep watching this and see where things stand in four or five turns.

The archer in the northwest taking that much damage isn't great. I'm assuming that the slinger is coming over to help kill the barbarian unit. Hopefully you can still get a settler over to the Atredies spot without being delayed. Is this correct for the faith-purchased settlers?

Fogger: heading to Atreides
Funky: heading to the relocated Spice Melange
Just Do It: heading to Act On Instict (after growing to size 2)

Are there any units available to escort the Spice Melange settler over from Funky? I think that with the visibility settlers get and the visibility from your borders, it should be relatively safe. Maybe by the time that the settler gets down there, the current archer will be healed enough to serve as an escort.

For next research after Currency, Bronze Working and Masonry are probably the best choices. And when Hell March and Funky finish their shrine (3t) and Campus (2t), I'll suggest either some more military or some builders out of them next. It might have to be builders since you can't run Agoge or Maneuver at the same time that you're running Inspiration in the Wildcard slot. Lots of food for thought here when things are so crazy in real life!

[TheArchduke]

You never once mentioned in this thread that your family was about to increase by one size. Congratulations!

OK, as far as the Civ6 turn goes, that was a break of awesome luck having the nearby volcano erupt again and add fertility to those tiles. Act On Instinct is going to be an amazing city now - the only thing that it lacked was food and it just picked up a 4/1 tile. Also, is that a 6 faith tile at Crater Lake, and a 1/3/3 faith tundra hill tile? Excellent stuff. Just Do It will grow to size 2 in four turns and a settler can be instantly faith-purchased there and routed to the Act On Instinct site. You might want to move the warrior at Just Do It into the narrow pass so that the various units from other players don't block the settler when it pops out.

That Cornflakes scout is now trapped by the expanding Russian borders. If he doesn't have the ability to embark on the sea, he's going to be there for a while.

You might actually catch up to the other competing player for Hypatia, or at least make the race really close. When the Campus district finishes at Funky in 2 turns, the Great Scientist points will go up to 5.8 per turn, closing the gap by 0.8 points each turn. I think you still lose the race but you'll be at 51.5 points in five turns and 57.3 points in six turns. That's going to be close enough to thinking about spending faith on patronage if the unknown player doesn't run a Scientist project or increase their Scientist output. Let's keep watching this and see where things stand in four or five turns.

The archer in the northwest taking that much damage isn't great. I'm assuming that the slinger is coming over to help kill the barbarian unit. Hopefully you can still get a settler over to the Atredies spot without being delayed. Is this correct for the faith-purchased settlers?

Fogger: heading to Atreides
Funky: heading to the relocated Spice Melange
Just Do It: heading to Act On Instict (after growing to size 2)

Are there any units available to escort the Spice Melange settler over from Funky? I think that with the visibility settlers get and the visibility from your borders, it should be relatively safe. Maybe by the time that the settler gets down there, the current archer will be healed enough to serve as an escort.

For next research after Currency, Bronze Working and Masonry are probably the best choices. And when Hell March and Funky finish their shrine (3t) and Campus (2t), I'll suggest either some more military or some builders out of them next. It might have to be builders since you can't run Agoge or Maneuver at the same time that you're running Inspiration in the Wildcard slot. Lots of food for thought here when things are so crazy in real life!

Thanks, I try to keep my life private, but I have to assume that I am bit erratic with turnpace which I quite dislike myself.

Anyway. The luck with Just do It is ridiculous. Yeah that city can quickly grow now and use those amazing tundra forest hill tiles.

I am not happy with fencing Cornflakes scout in. I know you see those little delays as part of the game, but I think that people need to watch diplomacy and how people react irrational to little things. I am guilty of that myself sometimes.

I am quite sure that I do not want Hypatia to fall into the wrong hands, especially as Funky could use that library quite a bit. She is +5 flat asap and +3-4 : over the course of the game. This adds up. Also I am quite confident that this is Alhambram as it is a unknown player and suboptimal and pindicators score are ridiculously low. I think we have to deal with a runaway AI on the other continent called Alhambram and he has shown himself more then capable last time. This informs us that we need to push even more.

Yeah, I like CIV VI for a lot of things and terrain, manuever and policies do matter. This is why CR is a liability sometimes, you miss the mil policies and Discipline is the difference between barbs being a cakewalk or a real threat. Damage was a tad on the high side as well on that archer.

DoFs ensure that the settler can quickly cut over by the river to fogger. With the trader in fogger buying 2 settlers out of fogger is not the biggest issue though.

I think Maneuver and 2-3 horseman I want out of my cities after the shrine and the campus. There is a good chance that the barb camp NW could become a real issue. But then again inspiration is lost. Classical Republic has just a shit policy card setup but great bonuses.

[TheArchduke]

The RNG giveth and taketh.

Whilst Just do It enjoys more fertility, Fogger enjoys 2 less pop. Ouch!

   

Next turn golden age. We can not wait on the ancestral hall anymore.

And judging from the picture I actually switched to audience chamber by mistake. Silly me. I rushed the last turn! 

I try for a more meaty report next turn.

[williams482]

Ouch. This also eliminates a forest, taking breathtaking status for the horse and the plains hill with it. That's annoying, and likely won't change until we get City Parks going, but at least we got some extra other yields to make up for it.

Congrats on the kid!

[Sullla]

TheArchduke: keep in mind that you don't need to rush through your turns. The overall turn pace of this game has been slow and there's no need to race through a turn in 1 minute just to keep the save moving. You're making mistakes because you're trying to play too quickly. Try to relax with all of the exciting events taking place in real life at the moment, and if you need to hold the save for 6 hours or whatever for a better turn window, no one is going to care.

The explosion at Fogger is very much bad news, greatly slowing the construction of the Ancestral Hall and removing two much-needed population points from the city. (The wasted turn of production into the Audience Chamber is another sign of rushing the turns too fast - again, take your time, no one is judging you!) With a Golden Age beginning next turn, you need to think about where the population points for the faith-purchased settlers are going to come from. I don't think you want to take a pop point out of the capital since that will significantly delay growing to size 7 and placing a third (Commercial) district. The settler for Act On Instinct is going to come out of Just Do It as soon as it hits size 2, no decision needed there. But what about the other two settlers? I have three competing suggestions here:

* One settler from Fogger, one settler from Funky: the default previous suggestions, same as before
* Get them both out of Funky: the city has tons of food and can afford the population hits. The biggest downside is that there are long walking times from Funky to Atreides and the relocated Spice Melange so this is somewhat inefficient from a transit standpoint.
* Get them both out of Fogger: it sounds counterintuitive, but remember that cities grow the fastest at lower population sizes. I'll post the old food requirement table again:

Pop Food to Next Size
1 15
2 24
3 33.82842712
4 44.19615242
5 55
6 66.18033989
7 77.69693846
8 89.52025918
9 101.627417
10 114

It costs 73 food to grow from size 1 to size 4... and it costs 77 food to grow from size 7 to size 8! You could theoretically drop from size 3 to size 2 with a faith-bought settler out of Fogger, regrow in two turns back to size 3, then drop from size 3 back to size 2 again with another faith-bought settler. It only takes 24 food to grow from size 2 to size 3 and Fogger has a +6 food surplus at the moment. The argument in favor doing this is that you would be regrowing population at cheaper food costs and Fogger is much closer to the Atreides/Spice Melange sites in terms of travel distance. The downside is that the lost pop points would be dropping off improved tiles (you would have to stop working the spice plantation tile at size 2) and this would slow down the Ancestral Hall that much longer. But does Fogger have anything else important to work on as a city right now? I'm not sure it does aside from the Ancestral Hall.

I think there are viable arguments in favor of all three options, I wanted to outline them so that you could decide what sounds most appealing. Other thoughts:

* What's going on with the barbarian horse unit? Is it still there, are you planning to upgrade the slinger to an archer, can you get the planned settler to the Atreides spot safely (?)

* Are there any enemy units blocking the narrow pass leading to Act On Instinct?

* What's the next item at Funky when the Campus finishes? I think you either go double military units at Hell March/Funky (with a military boosting policy in place) or double builders with Ilkum in place. Keep in mind that you can't run Inspiration in the Wildcard slot along with a military policy card so this may make the decision for you.

[TheArchduke]

Yeah, I royally screwed up the Ancestral Hall. Even that any production sunk into it is lost. So nevermind about delaying any settlers, we better get going.
Fogger is going to push out settlers, because it is of no use anyway by now.

I upgraded the slinger to an archer. The barb horseman is still around and I should have plundered the camp when I could, not now.
I actually got OB with Cornflakes with 20gold to top it off. I rather not have his scout plundering something.

Act of Instinct is fortified by a Cree warrior which is kind of annoying, we will see if he moves or is scared of the barb camp.

Yeah, blame real life, the last 2-3 turns were suboptimal.