[Spoilers] Pindicator's Nice Thread

[pindicator]

141

Hey, I would have built Great Library after all. Well that sucks, but I feel I delayed my golden age enough as is.




I'm sure this will only turn out to be a very efficient Wealth Build but here we go anyway. I realized after chopping that if I had kept and worked the forest a couple turns then I could have finished the wonder in 7 turns. So I might end up hiring a plain citizen there next turn in order to still get the wonder by then. Working a normal citizen in a golden age, where did we go wrong?

Moai has completed:




Funny enough I need to find some health. You know what I might do? I might try trading with Gavagai. He has clams and gold; I could use both. I could trade him spices and not trying to kill him any more.

Realistically I feel like I'm out of this one now. I probably had to go all in on attacking Gavagai early on, when I decided to just whip a little. But now I need to hope that naufrager and miguelito can slow Magic Science down. But even then I'm doing the Superdeath strategy but with less land and half as green.

Demos




I think I can get to Civil Service and Metal Casting by the end of the golden age. I should probably go Machinery & Feudalism instead on the way to Guilds, like everyone else. But I think I want to go for Paper.

[Tarkeel]

I'm sure this will only turn out to be a very efficient Wealth Build but here we go anyway.  I realized after chopping that if I had kept and worked the forest a couple turns then I could have finished the wonder in 7 turns.  So I might end up hiring a plain citizen there next turn in order to still get the wonder by then.  Working a normal citizen in a golden age, where did we go wrong?

Not building an AP-boosted temple?

[pindicator]

You're peeking ahead to next turn's post!

In all seriousness, I've been giving that some thought. But i need to get missionaries out first, and I've got 3 going right now.

[pindicator]

142

I did not expect this from Gavagai, but I like it




Perhaps this is opportunity for a pivot? I offered him Spices for Gold; Fish for Clams.

Now I have no illusions. Gavagai probably comes after me down the line even if he takes the deals. So I've been thinking about how to defend He-Man.

Overdue:

I still think He-Man is indefensible, but i want to make it so that if he comes after the city then he has to commit a lot of units that I can then take out with a counter. So I am going to try to stuff Skirmishers in there: at least half a dozen. Getting Walls up and then having my army stay behind it so I can take out whatever he brings up to attack the city. This way he loses hammers in whatever exchange he goes for.

As Tarkeel brought up, I've also been thinking about production and religion. Circled cities already have Buddhism in them:




The 3 missionaries I'm building are going to go to the 3 next largest cities, and then I think we will start building Org-powered Mints from there. Might still switch Voltron for Heathcliff. That means the smaller cities like Smurfs and Inspector Gadget are not going to get religion for a while but they will not be building Mints anyway. Eventually I do want to be building Temples and Monasteries in all my cities: with Org Rel a Monastery costs 48h and pays back 2.5 with a return time of 20 turns. Adding a mint changes this to effectively cost 40 hammers and a pays back 3, with a return time of 14 turns. Temples at 80h base respectively are 54h cost and 18t return time in cities with mints. So eventually I do want to get them everywhere, but I still likely skip mints in the weaker cities.

Finally, I figured out a better solution for the capital than hiring a citizen specialist: we'll be able to build a workshop on the chopped tile in time to cut down the build time.

[pindicator]

143

We have trade with Gavagai. He offered me this and I accepted:




My sentry Horse Archer is headed to spy out his efforts against Superdeath. I think I'll station something in his lands to give myself an extra turn or so on any incoming attack from him.

I suppose I should comment on all the Walls builds last turn: my Stone deal with Superdeath expires this turn, so I'm trying to be efficient with it. Possibly still the wrong play, but I will have Walls in all the cities that really want them.

Lastly, naufrager is absolutely going for religious building economy:




Which is why I want to get to Paper.

[pindicator]

145

With Gavagai playing on the turn rotation I missed that he captured a city off Superdeath a couple turns ago.




Call me crazy, but I'm rooting for Gavagai to take 1 more city here. Anything that ties his units down away from his capital so that when I'm ready to come back then I can fight a smaller force. Current idea is to come back around Knights or maybe I go the top of the tree and try for Cuirs later on.

Commodore saw me pull my army back to a more central location and got a little anxious, asking me to reaffirm Fish for Fish. No plans on attacking you yet Commodore, not when you're on the verge of Knights. He just switched to Vassalage this turn, so he's just 2 techs away.

Edit: Went back in and switched tech to 1-turn Meditation. The weaker hammer cities need to be building monasteries & temples before forges

[pindicator]

147

Heroic Epic is finished and I'm probably going to spend the rest of the day racking my brain over where I should continue to build infrastructure there or if I need to start pumping out Elephants.  For now I'm going for infrastructure:  forge and religious buildings, followed by a courthouse and possibly a market if I'm feeling greedy.  In all that feels like too much.

Commodore is 1 tech away from Guilds and birthed another Great Merchant, so I have to think that is nigh.  This is going to force me to attack Gavagai again, as I cannot let Commodore get Rome.  This makes me think that I need to be building units now.  Peace with Gavagai is up in 2 turns.

Meanwhile, Gavagai's army is very much being used:




These numbers look to be in Gavagai's favor, however the power graph shows Superdeath gaining ground fast:




Gavagai is very much under the clock here.  I'm going to keep my horse archer up here on his army and then send a worker back through Gavagai's core, and if it's as bare as I saw when my sentry HA first went through then I start sending my stack home.  If I see his forces decimated I will have to jump back in.

Next turn I'll start moving my units back west.  I don't want to do it too soon, as I want Gavagai to feel comfortable enough to keep pressing.  If he signs peace with Superdeath now I think his units can get back in time to cover Rome.

[pindicator]

Saw Superdeath captured a city and so I logged in to see the damage. Found instaed Gav has called for peace with SD and gifted his conquered city back. So yeah, looks like he's very aware of that peace treaty deadline as well.

Sent my stack west and swapped stuff over to units.

[pindicator]

148

Gavagai and Superdeath are back on peace, Bing launches a Golden Age, and we complete the Great Library.




This is the last turn of our Golden Age, and so I switched my civics accordingly:




Rainbow Brite, now with its first wonder:




Those specialists are only being hired for this one turn in Rainbow Brite, to take advantage of the Golden Age doubling.  Next turn they go back into the field.

The plan here is to take advantage of Bureaucracy to get the necessary infrastructure down for Rainbow Brite:  Heroic Epic, Forge, Monastery, Temple, Aqueduct.  By then we will have our next Great Scientist born out of The Smurfs and ready to run as many specialists out of the capital as possible.
The next Golden Age will be a civic swap into Vassalage and run as many specialists in the capital as possible.  (I'm toying with the idea of using the first GS out of Rainbow Brite to bulb Philosophy and also run Pacifism during that GA.)  The goal of the next GA will be to finish in Banking and get into Mercantilism.  Then the third GA will be to finish in Rep.

Demos on the final turn of our golden age:




I'm still amazed at how I have such a high crop yield compared to the field. Is it because I've been whipping so little lately? My land is not that amazing, outside of the capital and Thundercats. The MFG is concerning only being average in the golden age, but I'm hoping that as I whip in religious buildings over the next couple turns that will turn things around here.

Bing's GNP has shot above ours as he started his GA.  Amazingly I've climbed to 2nd place in score, but I think this is one of those games where score does not accurately reflect who is winning.  Naufrager certainly deserves his top spot, but I would put Magic Science (with Engineering), Bing, and possibly even Commodore ahead of us.

Speaking of Commodore, I suspect he might be going for a mass knight upgrade.




Nearly 20 horse archers and he just birthed a great merchant last turn?  Perhaps that GM isn't going to be used for getting to Guilds but instead for what comes after?

I'm certainly in a bit of a dicey situation by delaying Guilds.  I'm going to need to rely on elephants to bridge the gap until I can pick up the bottom half of the tree myself.  But Horse Archers and Catapults can do a lot on their own, as long as I can get the first hit in on any invading army.  All that said, I think the odds of Commodore actually attacking us are slim.  I would think he looks to contain us more than conquer us outright by taking Gavagai over himself and boxing us in, then concentrating his forces against more dangerous neighbors like Bing & Magic Science.

At the same time, I think I want to go towards that scenario:  splitting Gav with Commodore and leaving him as my only land neighbor could lead me to a fun situation where I am able to go for Astronomy early on and raid the shores of Magic Science and Superdeath.  Okay, that's a bit of a long shot, but it would be fun to play out if things line up right.

As for now, I still have the world's highest power rating, and that has to give me some bit of comfort.

Parting Moai in a Golden Age screenshot:

[pindicator]

150

Made it to turn 150 and was rewarded with my fourth event:




Paid the 35g for 2 missionary spreads because this solves my missionary problem immediately.  Currently I had a missionary out in the field to convert Ninja Turtles, but had no plans to fill in my last 2 remaining cities: He-Man and The Smurfs.  This gave me free spreads to He-Man and Ninja Turtles and my missionary will get to The Smurfs next turn.  Very happy with this event.

With religion spread solved it is time to up production across the empire:




Because the screenshot cuts it off, I marked M or T to denote whether it is a Monastery or Temple being built.  In general a Monastery goes first because it is cheaper (60h), and then a Temple after (80h).

It is a tough decision at times and one that I still bounce around with.  Which building to I build first?  For weaker cities the best production help will be a Monastery or Temple, but if the city's production is largely driven by the whip then shouldn't a Mint go first still?  (15h gained for a 2-pop whip would translate out to 1.5h/turn, so perhaps not!)  Yet in more commerce-driven cities the Mint gets an extra bit of Gold coming in and that shouldn't be ignored either.  In the end I plan on getting all 3 buildings in most cities (Mints will probably be skipped in the most minor of cities like Smurfs, Heathcliff, and He-Man).

My plan for the next 10 turns is to continue building up these production buildings as best I can, up until Machinery finishes.  Then we go into Mace production.




My tech plan is that after Machinery we go for Paper to race Naufrager to University of Sankore wonder, and then head to the bottom half of the tech tree for Feudalism, Guilds, & Banking.  The great person for our Golden Age is due in 5 turns, and I still need to decide whether I kick it off straight away or if I delay a few turns to make sure I have enough to get to Banking and into Mercantilism by the end of the golden age.  I would like to delay, I think, until after the infrastructure push is done, and then be able to switch into Vassalage and hire specialists at the capital.  Perhaps I should cut Paper and stay focused on the Mercantilism goal, but I don't want to give naufrager the free pass to all the religious wonders.

So much so that now I am wondering if I should delay Machinery as well and go for Paper right away...  Yet Machinery is needed for a few things:  maces, crossbows, and even windmills to help a few cities grow.

After Banking and Mercantilism I have a few directions I can go:  Education for Universities and on to Liberalism, Optics to hook up that whale and on to Astronomy for galleons to threaten Magic Science, Gunpowder and Engineering and on to Steel.  But the one that I think is most likely is to go for Nationalism to build Taj and go on to Representation.  Still a lot to be played to be able to really decide on a path, however.


Empire-shot:




It's a little depressing that this fits in one screenshot.

There are still just 3 avenues for expansion:  The most difficult is to go through Magic Science, as that will require a large naval presence which will be difficult to hide.  The next most difficult is to go through Commodore, because he now has a real stack of horse archers (soon to be knights) that will slam into any slow-moving force I make.  And finally, there are a bunch of Praetorians over in Rome:




22 Praetorians and 8 Horse Archers.  Gav has been steadily burning cash and I have to think that means Catapults are going to be on the scene soon.  So any attempt to fight him pre-knights is going to be prickly.  I really need for my next time coming in to be the final time and to end with me getting at least Rome & Antium.  But are maces really the answer here?  More likely I need to wait for Commodore to upgrade those 19 horse archers to knights and then smash into Gavagai's main force; that will be my signal to move in.

Here's what I have for an army:




The elephants, catapults, and 6 axes are all currently inside Heathcliff.  Most of the horse archers are nearby, though I do have 3 of them roaming around mapping things out.  1 sentry is moving through Bing's lands getting my first vision there.  Another sentry is keeping tabs on Commodore & Gavagai's forces.  And a non-sentry HA is trying to figure out where the armies are in the naufrager-MS-Gingerito dispute.

Graphs, Demos, & Top 5:



















After looking at these graphs for a bit, I think I want to give the top spot to Bing regardless of the fact he just started his golden age.  His GNP pre-GA is more than mine is now, post-GA.  His MFG has skyrocketed.  He leads in crop yield.  Truly, the biggest reason to hurry up and conquer Gavagai is to help encourage Commodore to start poking the bear to his west.  Magic Science and Naufrager must both be weighed down by their extended warring against both Ginger/Miguelito and the occasional tiff amongst themelves.  Ginger is doing a good job of holding on despite the double team (and not having a broken UU to lean on).

Commodore and I still seem to be in that middle group despite everything else that's happened.  Where my Commerce is pulling me up my MFG struggles, and for Commodore the opposite seems to be true.  Superdeath might have had a chance at this middle tier but the war against Gavagai has been disasterous for his metrics.  Those are some noticeable shark fins.

Overall I don't think the order has rearranged too much.  There's a new top dog in Bing, but Nauf & MS are close behind in the 1B tier.  Commodore and I are the 2s.  Superdeath is the 3.  And Gavagai and Ginger are dead men walking, though I think Ginger has the advantage in the First-To-Die race.

I still need to conquer some more land in order to have a chance at contending for the lead, but there aren't any easy answers there.  I'm hoping instead that the religious building push is going to work as a similar boost as to conquering new lands:  if you were to add 40mfg to my current stat (adding monasteries and temples everywhere will do this) then I'm suddenly at Commodore's level of mfg.  Adding another 80 GNP (those same buildings + the beakers from UoS) and I'm up with pre-Golden Age Bing.  So the conquest of Gavagai is still the goal, but we are going to focus on internal development first.