WW16: The Outlaws and The Olives

[novice]

Ok, onwards. Novice.

I didn't like his post about the mass-role-claim stuff. He lines out how good that could be just to then write about that it shouldn't be done. Why even talk about it in the first place then? It feels like a try to plant a seed so that someone else will go for it anyway. *

Now he also starts to get unfair in his way of accusing thestick. **

* I explained in the very next post why I brought that up. I was demonstrating why it wouldn't make sense for a wolf to push for Tasunke's claim. And why would I, as a wolf, plant a seed for something boring, metagamey and protown?

** what's unfair about my Thestick accusation?

[uberfish]

It's of course very possible that Thestick is a villager, and if so it sucks getting jumped on for your first post. In fact it sucks regardless of alignment. But it's part of the game.

translation: "I'm sorry I'm trying to get you mislynched Thestick. Oh wait no I'm not."

novice

[novice]

You were already voting for me, Uberfish. Thanks for contributing.

[Serdoa]

I don't know novice why you would plant a seed for mass-claiming as a wolf. But your argument that a wolf wouldn't because it is a pro-town thing does only apply if one agrees with you that it actually is a pro-town thing to do a mass-claim. You stated that but that doesn't make it necessarily the truth. We don't know the setup so imo it can be either way.

And with unfair I probably used a bad wording but I can't put that in a clear sentence in English. You posted:

Besides, if your first post is your best, earnest attempt to act villagery, and you immediately get pounced on for it, entering lurk mode and hoping your teammates whip up some other suspects would be a natural reaction.

and that reads for me like a politician who makes something (thestick is a wolf) seem like the truth when that actually is still up for debate. You don't try to interpret his behaviour neutrally. Instead you put your sentence in a way that subtly carries the message "thestick is a wolf". It is the same as with your mass-roleclaim. You declare (indirectly) something as truth without any evidence for it, just to lend more credence to your argument.

[zakalwe]

Not a lot of time to post today, what with my mother's guide dog getting a bone marrow transplant, and all.

Thestick's second post doesn't sway me. I'd give it a neutral read, in isolation, and his first post remains scummy. I could see the second post as him trying to stay cool and wait for the tide to turn.

Currently spiking on my scumdar are also Uberfish and Catwalk, mainly for making terrible arguments. (See Uberfish above, and Catwalk's post 188.)

I have a couple of other suspects, too, but I want to watch them some more before tipping my hand.

[uberfish]

You were already voting for me, Uberfish. Thanks for contributing.

no I was voting for Catwalk you worthless pile of scum.

[novice]

no I was voting for Catwalk you worthless pile of scum.

[uberfish]

That's because you're scum Novice.

and btw I don't really get the Gaspar-Injera love fest. the original "Catwalk isn't the sort of person to tactically lurk as scum" which sparked the fight off isn't much of a tell imo, village are as liable to drop these sort of comments as wolves imo

In fact I'm not sure we are really getting anywhere productive with the lines of discussion about inactivity and who could be tactical lurking because of weekend start + high player count. I'm more suspicious of people paying too much attention to their own activity level (ie Catwalk)

[Meiz]

I didnt declare him as anything, I justsaid the wolves had seen him claim. Of couse they know if he is village or not.

This is what you wrote: "See told you all he would claim with just the tiny bit of pressure. Thats now 1 less person the wolves have to check out for any power roles we have"
Based on that, you didn't seem to concider that Tas would be a wolf lying about his role. Perhaps because you knew he wasn't.

As for know better I meant leaping all over a post that had been stated by the poster to be very weak, but somehow holding it up as if I had decided there and then I knew 100% tansuke's role and alignment without question despite me saying up front it was a weak argument

I haven't questioned your original vote of Merovech, which you stated as weak reasoning. So what are you talking about here?

I'm tempted to call that wolfish, recognizing the usual patterns of village behavior and blending in. Then again, admitting that you recognize the pattern and still following it doesn't seem like something a wolf would do.

I think instantly voting back your voter is an easy vote to make. Doesn't need much justification behind it.

---

I don't get the whole "it's unfair to vote someone" reasoning, especially on day 1. It's not allowed to vote for player because he has just made 1 post? ok.... . I get it that Injera feels sorry for thestick because of the last game, but IMO it's still an odd reason to campaign against voting him just because of that. In other words, this:

It's of course very possible that Thestick is a villager, and if so it sucks getting jumped on for your first post. In fact it sucks regardless of alignment. But it's part of the game.

I also found it odd that Catwalk had to underline his busyness with a big marker, mostly because I've never felt any need for it as a villager. And I don't really remember him doing that before, correct if I'm wrong. That being said, he wasn't in big danger of getting voted out, so if the plan was to fake being busy, why wouldn't he just stick to that plan?

Uberfish doen't seem to be bringing his A-villager-game so far. He has mostly concentrated on catwalk. [strike]Seems like his field of view is a bit too narrow.[/strike]
//crossposted with uberfish, voting novice. So scratch the last line. Still, what's with the attitude?

I'd also prefer pindicator or Serdoa (yes, eating my words from last game) as mayor over Zak if anyone is interested in an alternative.

Why pindicator?

I do not believe Catwalk has the comportment to play actively as scum. That's not an insult or slight, just my perception of his personality.

It's guesswork. I think he would do his best to replicate his standard play as a wolf, like every player drawing wolf. So I think he would make the effort, another thing is how succesfull he would be.

Something that struck me earlier was Injera's tone and aggressiveness. I really think that Injera is a villager.

Are this related or separated? Are you saying his tone and aggressiveness is a sign that he's a villager?

I'm starting to agree with Jkaen here.

(regarding Merovech voting Tasunke).
How would Merovech know Tasunke's claim habits? It's his first game. And I think that's just bullshit argument to make. You're not allowed to vote Tas because he might claim his role?!

Mattimeo, for his two posts being a quick check in followed by a metagaming post saying that 'Tasunke's role claim doesn't clear him.'

Agreed. I remember him making a big number of his day 1 voting habits in previous games, but sitting on fence doesn't leave any trails behind.

@ mass claims. I asked this earlier already, but how would you recognize false claims from correct ones? You'd need some sort of role seer / tracker to catch people lying and we don't know if we have any. So in worst case scenario, we would have villagers claiming their true roles while wolves claiming vanilla villagers.

@Azza, you've posted twice saying that waterbats post #29 confused you, hence the vote. Anything else you'd like to contribute? Same question for Aromir.

@Sareln, seems like you hang in every game for lurking. Wouldn't it be time to change that a bit? What's the idea behind voting Qgqqq? It's not to add pressure, since you're not making any arguments.

[Jkaen]

I haven't questioned your original vote of Merovech, which you stated as weak reasoning. So what are you talking about here?

Your whole line of argument against me is based on my Merovech vote, because I voted him based on trying to draw out the roleclaim

I think instantly voting back your voter is an easy vote to make. Doesn't need much justification behind it.

Correct, whats your point?

(regarding Merovech voting Tasunke).
How would Merovech know Tasunke's claim habits? It's his first game. And I think that's just bullshit argument to make. You're not allowed to vote Tas because he might claim his role?!

Agreed. I remember him making a big number of his day 1 voting habits in previous games, but sitting on fence doesn't leave any trails behind.

He could easily have read up on previous games, just because he idnt play them doesn't mean he is not aware of them

And yes you are allowed to vote. I just found it slightly interesting the first person to build a bunch of votes on for little reason I could see is the one many people would know would claim very early.