WW29: Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood

[Mattimeo]

Interesting argument against zak for the subtle encouragement of crackpot theories. Agreed that the response seems more indicative of covering tracks. Can't really find who came up with it, though, just the later discussion about it. Can't escape my mind that the argument seems specific enough to be one the scum lovingly crafted overnight to nab zak today, though :/

How is it that the case against Zak seems interesting, but it is a mystery as to its origin? I mean I think its clear that I started the case. If he thinks its lovingly crafted by scum to "nab Zak" why hasn't he looked harder to figure out who came up with the idea?? His comment on me was "Lewwyn being Lewwyn" so it's not like he hasn't read my posts? And what is the implication here? That the case against Zak is TOO specific? Is mattimeo implying that Zak is innocent without saying that? The whole comment reeks of waffling. Zak why aren't you jumping all over this?

I'm willing to vote Mattimeo.

Oh, it was you that brought it up? Where'd it start? Closest I could find looked like it was already halfway through a discussion, and I couldn't find a previous reference.
Mildly less chance of it being a pre-planned scum ploy in that instance, to be honest - kind of expect that kind of half intuitive, curiously specific leap from you.

Mattimeo no comment on Zak?

I don't like the way he's looking around for someone, anyone, that's not himself to pin something on. But then, I seem to recall calling him on that before and being wrong, too.

Still Goreripper over him at this stage, but against most other candidates I'd likely be pushing zak.

[zakalwe]

I'm not sure how I'm scummy for knowing you were playing lazy scum last game. You have played aggressive active scum with me in the past, which has mirrored your performance here.

I was thinking you would also notice the trend that I was talking about. I don't have it in me to play an aggressive active scum game at this point. On the other hand, I am highly motivated to try my hand as town again. So the fact that I'm active should rather be a town tell than a scum tell.

I think you're talking in a circles a bit Zak.

Maybe I am, like I said I haven't really had any strong scum leans, so I'm basically trying to eliminate my way to a good lynch.

That is a good point about Mattimeo, and I'd like to hear his answer. The "lovingly crafted by scum" part actually did resonate a bit with me, but you are absolutely right that he should have investigated who the actual source was if he thought it was scummy.

What Meiz says could also be true; i.e., that the real purpose of his post was simply to justify a vote.

[Meiz]

I'm not sure how I'm scummy for knowing you were playing lazy scum last game. You have played aggressive active scum with me in the past, which has mirrored your performance here.

I was thinking you would also notice the trend that I was talking about. I don't have it in me to play an aggressive active scum game at this point. On the other hand, I am highly motivated to try my hand as town again. So the fact that I'm active should rather be a town tell than a scum tell.

Going in circles, but I still think your point here is not valid for 2 scum game.

[zakalwe]

Going in circles, but I still think your point here is not valid for 2 scum game.

Why not?

[Meiz]

For a game with ~4 scum, the team is so large that possible bussings are more acceptable. So the play can be a bit more layback. While with 2 scum, I'd think the main objective is to keep both of them alive as long as possible, and the motivation to do that is higher, since you'd not want to leave the other player survive alone for most of the game.

[zakalwe]

Novice is interjecting useful points and questions here and there, as usual.

Looking more closely at Mattimeo's post, this read is perhaps also a bit off. Mattimeo tends to be pretty paranoid about Novice. I half expected a follow-up sentence here saying that he still suspects him.

@Meiz. Going in circles, indeed. If I'm not motivated, I'm not motivated. You're just listing reasons I should be motivated, but that sense of duty would only take me so far.

[Jowy]

Zak being eager to play is not a town tell in my opinion. He's calling his scum play from WW28 lazy and bad. I think he would definitely want to play a better scum game in this one, especially since there are only two scum so it's not like scum can afford to bus him or carry him to a win. Maybe it's unfair, but I would also expect way better play from him if he was town. He's been energetic yeah, but has he really hunted scum? When a good and experienced player puts this much energy and time to being "a good villager", I would expect myself to recognize them as town if they were actually town. Speaking of that, Lewwyn feels like an obvious town to me this game, and it would be strange if town-Zak wouldn't recognize this. He's currently voting for Lewwyn.

GoreRipper should be calling us idiots and scum for voting for him, yet he's not. He's scared of being killed, and that is out of character for him.

Zakalwe

[Mattimeo]

Zak being eager to play is not a town tell in my opinion. He's calling his scum play from WW28 lazy and bad. I think he would definitely want to play a better scum game in this one, especially since there are only two scum so it's not like scum can afford to bus him or carry him to a win. Maybe it's unfair, but I would also expect way better play from him if he was town. He's been energetic yeah, but has he really hunted scum? When a good and experienced player puts this much energy and time to being "a good villager", I would expect myself to recognize them as town if they were actually town. Speaking of that, Lewwyn feels like an obvious town to me this game, and it would be strange if town-Zak wouldn't recognize this. He's currently voting for Lewwyn.

GoreRipper should be calling us idiots and scum for voting for him, yet he's not. He's scared of being killed, and that is out of character for him.

Zakalwe

You believe the scum team is zakalwe-Goreripper?

[zakalwe]

He's currently voting for Lewwyn.

And you are currently voting for a villager. I guess that makes you scum, then?

Since Lewwyn is calling you town and calling me scum, is it really such a wonder that I am less inclined to think of him as town than you are? I don't disagree that Lewwyn has seemed town in many ways, particularly in his most recent posts, but I also know that he's a fantastic scum player and he has been clamoring to lynch me all day long.

I would also argue that I'm scumhunting, even if I'm not throwing out blind convictions like you are. We just have different play styles.

[novice]

Are you stuck on Goreripper, novice?

Yes, in the sense that I don't know where to put my vote.

I'm debating voting Serdoa or Jowy. I guess Mattimeo works too but if anybody's the "patsy" it's surely him.

Zak being eager to play is not a town tell in my opinion. He's calling his scum play from WW28 lazy and bad. I think he would definitely want to play a better scum game in this one, especially since there are only two scum so it's not like scum can afford to bus him or carry him to a win. Maybe it's unfair, but I would also expect way better play from him if he was town. He's been energetic yeah, but has he really hunted scum? When a good and experienced player puts this much energy and time to being "a good villager", I would expect myself to recognize them as town if they were actually town. Speaking of that, Lewwyn feels like an obvious town to me this game, and it would be strange if town-Zak wouldn't recognize this. He's currently voting for Lewwyn.

GoreRipper should be calling us idiots and scum for voting for him, yet he's not. He's scared of being killed, and that is out of character for him.

Zakalwe

Why Zak over Gore here? Gore has three votes and Zak has one prior to your switch.

Btw, Mattimeo, please revote for Goreripper in red. (#FF0000)