GeneralKilCavalry and thestick talk it out

[GeneralKilCavalry]

T55 Report

We dropped from ~85% to 70% breakeven, think we should consolidate a bit so that the 5th city doesn't destroy our momentum. All these unconnected cities don't bode well for our development level or defendability. Then again, I'm always a worrywart, which is why I'm dedlurking instead of turnplaying. I'm too passive as the main turnplayer.

I'm really surprised no one else is going for religion. Buddhism still hasn't fallen yet! We only have Ivory, Wines, and Silks nearby for happy resources, with Incense in a disputed area with Mr. Cairo. I suppose they haven't been growing their cities yet, so they don't need the happy? Or it's so early that they can't invest the hammers into missionaries, which is fair.

Do you want to build a Mine, or a Cottage at Arcole? It will finish when we regrow to Size 3. Maybe if it looks like Monotheism will take a while, we could funnel some whip overflow to a Barracks to pop borders.

1. Breakeven can and should be much lower this early, we should be expanding quickly and worrying about certain consequences later.

2. I am surprised in regards religion as well.

3. We probably want another mine at arcole just for some extra production? Then send to cottage our capital.

[thestick]

Fair enough. I agree we should push expansion for the next 10-15 turns, as long as we don't lose any of our cities.


T56 Report

The Barb warrior is going for Abukir, and will be micemeat against our bronze units.

   

We whipped a Granary in Arcole this turn.

   

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Messed around a bit with the micro in the Toulon Growth sheet. We can chop the forest 1SE of Arcole into a Settler in Toulon, which will finish T66 after a two-pop whip. Alternatively, we can go Axe->Settler and slow-build and chop a Settler in Lodi which will finish T67, or T66 if we go Barracks -> Settler to get more overflow. We can whip the Settler in Lodi and have it finish T65, but I don't think that's worth it, since Lodi's food box is empty and will take a while to regrow.

I think we should build the Settler in Toulon, and let Lodi grow. Lodi is food poor, eeds to grow onto some mines, and is our best unit producer. I think we should just build up Axes/Spears there. Then as Toulon regrows we add cottages, settle the fifth city which should get us down to ~50% breakeven, slowbuild Arcole settlers at Size 6 or so working cottages, whip Arcole and Abukir for Workers/Settlers, and keep humming along.

Ideally at some point we'd cottage 2W1N of Arcole, so that Arcole can grow the riverside cottage for Toulon.

Also, we will finish the Granary in Abukir T65 by chopping the forest 1E of the city and one-pop whipping.

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EDIT: SD just settled his fifth city. All of our known rivals only have 3. 

EDIT 2: Note to self: check how fast we can research Masonry->Monotheism. If it takes too long, just chop out a Barracks in Arcole. We need those Horses, both for the resource and for the yields.

[thestick]

T57 Pre-Report

SD just settled his sixth city. He has twice as many cities as our competitors.   GKC, you were right, Joao of Inca is scary.

   

Besides that, another Barb warrior is wandering out of the fog in Abukir, and a SD Quechua is wandering around Arcole. If he moves in, our Axe will make it before him.

   

   

Will fiddle with the micro to emphasize expansion and military. Hopefully we'll have iron nearby so instead of an Axe/Spear combo, we can get away with just a praet for defence against scouting units and barbs.

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Tech costs and the time it will take to research them breakeven, for future reference (we make about 20 BPT breakeven):

Priesthood 74 3 turns
Masonry 103 4 turns
Sailing/Meditation 133 6 turns
Monotheism/Writing 165 7 turns
Monarchy 469 23 turns

Think some combination of Sailing/Masonry/Monotheism should be our next move. Then... make a play for the Oracle in Green City, maybe? If we can get it, that'd be amazing, both for the shrine and for the shortcut to Monarchy. Don't see the point of Calendar yet, we only have Spices and Bananas nearby.

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EDIT: Wait, how do movement rules work in a Pitboss? If he double-moves us, could he beat us to Arcole? We should be able to scrape up enough hammers from the Granary overflow to one-pop whip an Axe next turn, if we need it.

[thestick]

Okay, messed with the micro. Current ideas/proposals are in Toulon S4 Settler.

Proposed Changes:
-Immediately start a Settler in Toulon. You're right, we can cottage things up later. This also frees up Dumas (was going to cottage Toulon) to road to the Green city, or head to Arcole to road west, if there's iron out there. Murat (Lodi) can road out east if we need it.
--We can either complete it T65 with a chop, or two-pop whip it to come out T63. I think we should two-pop whip it if we go for the Green city, wait a bit if Iron shows up somewhere. We need a bit of time to move units around.
---Note to self: if we two-pop whip a Settler, figure out what Ney (Arcole) should do, since it won't have to chop anymore.
-We can get Lodi to chop out an Axe/Spear/Worker trio. Axe T61, Spear T64, Worker T66. Or more military if we're feeling insecure.
-Connect Abukir to the road network after we finish camping the Ivory because otherwise we run into the happy cap.
-If we build a Barracks in Arcole (and we don't have to whip an Axe to defend it), it will finish T63, borders pop T73. If we don't, IW finishes T59, Monotheism finishes ~T70, missionary comes ~T75, borders pop ~T85. Think we should build a Barracks.

General Notes:
-We're starting to run into happy problems in our non-Hindu cities. Going to have to start thinking MP units. Probably Spears in the border cities, Chariots elsewhere.
--We need happy. We desperately need happy. Starting to strongly think we should go Monotheism next, unless the fifth city crashes us so badly that we need Sailing for the offshore money island. EDIT: No, strongly think we should go for Monotheism. If we need money, build cottages.
-Hinduism has been really good for us, letting us whip down Toulon and pop Lodi's borders. Still surprised no one else is going religion. Unless they have a bonanza of gold/silver, in which case a. I call mapmaking foul and b. they probably don't, since otherwise their GNP would have skyrocketed.
-This is probably the last round of heavy whipping Toulon pulls off, since the other cities are up and running. Plus the next city will probably get us down to 50% breakeven, and our shoestring military and road network is showings its strains.

[GeneralKilCavalry]

Axe AND spear in Lodi is absolutely not necessary. I really think it should build a settler - take the sheep horse (in case arcole's borders won't expand soon) and proceed. At size 4, it should still produce a settler fast enough - 15 food-hammers a turn means 7 turn settler. This is not bad at all.

As for Toulon, I think we should allow for it to grow - in that time it can build a barracks -
Turn 58 -2 OF = 4 hammers +8*2=16 base production for 20 hammers total.
turn 59 - 8/28 food, 20/60
turn 60 - 13/28 food, 36/60 hammers
turn 61 - 18/28, 52/60
turn 62 - barracks complete, 23/38 - start an axe,
city size 5, start on a settler.

In this time, Dumas can build one cottage, precisely timed for the city to work said cottage at size 5. We can then chop the settler and 1-pop whip off the mine.
turn 65 - 31/100 (chop + 1 turn of work)
turn 66 - 42/100
turn 67 - 53/100
turn 68 - 64/100
turn 69 - 73/100, whip
turn 70, settler complete and start growth.

AND NOW THAT I THINK OF IT

This micro is 5-7 turns slower on getting out that crucial settler, and just seems inferior...

I need to ponder more on what to do here.

[thestick]

If we go Axe->Settler (slowbuild/chop) in Lodi, the Settler finishes T67. We're one stinkin' hammer short of finishing it T66, but we're already working max hammers, and swapping off of the food delays the Size 4 growth. (Don't think whipping pre-Granary will be productive here.)

Agree in principle. My main worry is the barbs and defending against scouting Chariots. (Well, that and scraping up enough Worker labor to road/prep to the new cities). Green city is jungle-filled and will need a couple of bronze units to defend. Meanwhile, we have literally no military in Lodi, so we'll have to build it or redeploy stuff to reach for orange sheep/horses city.

Doubt we have the military/Workers to jump out to 6 cities in 10 turns, but would love to be proven wrong.

Really wish we could see Iron...

Will try to sleep.

[GeneralKilCavalry]

LMAO I forgot Toulon has a granary.

So, it will grow in 3 turns not 5, and the barracks completes in 4, with 4 OF into a settler, and it should be at 13 hpt not 11.
Thus:
turn 62 4/100
63 17/100
turn 64 - 50/100, whip 2 pop?
turn 65 - settler out.

Then, we leave poor toulon alone and allow ourselves to indulge in some cottaging while building a stack of praets.

[GeneralKilCavalry]

Oh, and sheep/horses city will take off any military burden from lodi - lodi will become a backline. Similarly, founding green city will make Toulon a safe backline.

[GeneralKilCavalry]

Oh shoot, there's a barb spear next to lodi - the axe will have to get whippped. We should do a granary there next then.

[thestick]

Re: backline, yes, as long as we have enough military there to protect it, since the cities will be too small to emergency whip. Plus we need to protect the Sheep from pillaging, which is north of the city.

T58 Report

Raskol built the Oracle. He probably took Metal Casting. Is this early for RB meta? We should ask Gavagai how many cities Raskol has - is his score lead culture/tech, or is it real?

One of these days I'll play Expansive India/Inca and run away with the game... where there's no chance of a war of coalition.

A barb Spear is wandering out of the fog towards Lodi. We'll whip an Axe next turn to prevent it from pillaging our Sheep.

   

For micro reference, here's Toulon.

   

T58: 16/28 +5, 0/60 Barracks + 20, Dumas cottage (2N1W for sharing, 1SW if we're worried about pillaging)
T59: 21/28 20/60 Barracks +8hpt +8 bonus
T60: 26/28, Barracks 36/60
T61: 17/30 +5 (cottage finishes), Barracks 52/60 +8 hpt +8 bonus
T62: 22/60 Settler 0/100 +5 food +8 hpt +4 overflow
T63: 17/100 +13
T64: 30/100 +13 +20 chop
T65: 63/100

Gah, I hate one-off errors... So Settler finishes T66 with a two-pop whip, or T67 with a one-pop whip.

I guess when Arcole hits Size 4 T62, we whip out an Axe or Spear? We need the military, and Lodi will be busy.

I'm surprised there are so many barb Spears. Is this normal? Good thing we went for Copper and didn't rely on Warrior sentries...