[Spoilers] The games they are a changin' - Ichabod Civ 6 PBEM 3 as England

[Ichabod]

Thanks for the pillage info. There are some camps and pastures in Suboptimal's Capital, that we might want to use for some gold.

I don't think we can finish off Kaiser without splitting our Suboptimal stack. Right now, we could go against Kaiser with 2 warriors (one that can promote to the + strength against melee) and a HC. We can probably upgrade one of these warriors to a sword once IW is in (next turn -> speaking of which, how much is that upgrade?). Ah, there's also one archer that is lagging behind on the plan of attacking Kaiser in 3 turns, so we can add him to that attack.

I think those units are enough to brawl a bit against Kaiser. By that I mean trying to kill his units outside the city. Kaiser ought to finish IW any turn now and upgrade a sword (he has the gold, he has the iron). We can't siege the city, since it's coastal, and we probably can't capture it once he has a swordsman, not without risking losses. But we can prepare the terrain until we can detach some horses to help, by killing stray units and pillaging the iron mine. Though, considering how long Kaiser is taking to get IW, one could argue that he may not know that he can upgrade without having 2 irons or a Camp. Who knows, perhaps we can get him before he gets the upgrade, which would be very nice.

I don't think going for Stirrups right now will be profitable. The way things are going, we can probably finish Suboptimal without them, but we'd need an extra punch to safely battle Rowain. So, if we are going to wait for the GG and XBows, we can get Stirrups when the timing is more convenient.

I think I will start a builder in Desolation Row, after the Ram. Once we finish Kaiser, we can use that builder to chop 2 more horsemen. Better be rady, if the situation arrives.

In the Capital, I think I'll start a settler after the Watermill, planning to change to the +50% civic card, once that change is avaiable. The +1 hammer per city is not helping that much, considering it adds only 0.5 hammer to 4/7 of our cities.

Sorry for the recent walls of text, but yesterday was another day without a turn. There's actually nothing new to report.

[pindicator]

I would be wary about splitting our stack. Not saying it should not be done, but it increases risk of failure along both fronts. That's one reason I was suggesting building a second force to take Kaiser.

How big of a gain would it be to eliminate Kaiser and remove the occupation penalty? Right now we have 2 Kaiser cities and 1 Suboptimal city. But as we continue north that will soon change to be weighted more towards Suboptimal. Long term the benefit seems to be greater in continuing against Suboptimal and eating the short-term pain. But if the short-term cost is too much then maybe we do need to split and try to finish Kaiser now.

Can't help but hear Leonard Nemoy's voice reading the Civ 4 Hunting tech flavor text in my head ...

[pindicator]

Hey, the turn came in so late that I saw it come in after getting home from work. So I took a peek and have some suggestions...

- Next policy change opportunity we need to switch back to Charismatic Leader. Not sure if you only just swapped into Diplomatic League to get an extra envoy to Zanzabar, but we have no envoys to send so Diplomatic League gets us nothing right now.

- Wow, Amenities really are bad for us right now. I mean, I know you've said it many times, but seeing it is another thing. How far away are zoos again?

- I see you've got a bit of a Eureka / Inspire chain set up and almost ready to go off! Capital will finish the Water Mill next turn, which triggers the Eureka for Construction; finishing Construction will trigger the Eureka for Games & Recreation. Both Construction & Games+Rec are just shy of half finished already, so we're probably 16 turns away from Feudalism as of right now? That number will go down from growth a bit...

- Actually, War Weariness is starting to be a factor in that amenity crunch. It's not widespread, but we have -2 in Desolation Row and -1 in Hard Rain right now.

- If you did decide to swing south and take out Kaiser now ... maybe it would be beneficial to then just take Preslav out at the same time. Then we'd have the Battering Ram available for when we turn back north to take on suboptimal. I only see Suboptimal building walls at Tomatin right now though, so .... honestly, it's a tough call.

- It really would be nice to send a unit to explore by the city-states. Especially the area around Stockholm. No idea where that unit is coming from, so yeah...

- Maybe Yerevan hasn't built a Holy Site yet because it doesn't have the ability to chop jungles? Just a wild guess...

Enough stream of consciousness, let's look at the score.

Turn 71 Score Update


Science

1) Ichabod - 13 technologies, 24.8 science
2) Bacchus - 13 technologies, ??? science
3) Rowain - 11 technologies, 19.4 science
4) Suboptimal - 11 technologies, 13.8 science
5) Kaiser - 9 technologies, 6.7 science

Culture

1) Ichabod - 9 civics, 14.9 culture
2) Bacchus - 9 civics, ??? culture
3) Suboptimal - 7 civics, 6.9 culture
4) Kaiser - 8 civics, 1.7 culture
5) Rowain - 6 civics, 12.1 culture

Domination

1) Ichabod - 333 military strength, 1 capital owned
2) Rowain - 189 military strength
3) Bacchus - ???
4) Suboptimal - 76 military strength
5) Kaiser - 40 military strength

Religion

1) Bacchus - 1 city converted, ???
2) Kaiser - 1 city converted, 6.3 faith
3) Ichabod - 6.5 faith
3) Suboptimal - 5 faith
5) Rowain - 1 faith


Bacchus is the big mover over the last 6 turns. He's now equal to us in civics and techs. It's hard to say if he has completely caught up, as I know Ichabod has been banking some turns into waiting for eurekas and inspirations. But I don't think there's any doubt that Bacchus has been gaining on us in civics & tech. It'd be nice to meet him so we can see what his actual gain rates are.

[Ichabod]

I had already played the turn when I saw your post, Pindicator, because I wanted to pass it in time for another turn today. Unfortunately, it seems we are going to lose yet another day without a turn.

- Next policy change opportunity we need to switch back to Charismatic Leader.  Not sure if you only just swapped into Diplomatic League to get an extra envoy to Zanzabar, but we have no envoys to send so Diplomatic League gets us nothing right now.

I changed to Charismatic Leader on the last civic change, to get 2 envoys in Zanzibar. We could bank the envoys and wait with Diplomatic League until we could do a 1t swap into CHA Leader, but I wanted the envoy in Zanzibar now (it doubles our gpt and it's important to have some gold avaiable for general purposes) and I wanted it double (Zanzibar is more important than any other CS right now). We are going to change back when the next civic finishes, sticking with Diplo League for a while (as all new envoys will go into Zanzibar).

The next change into CHA leader can happen in a few turns. We got the Medieval quests, after finishing Apprenticeship. It's build an Entertainment Complex, 2 quests for the Castles Eureka and Education Eureka. I think the 2 of the Eurekas quest are for CSs with no envoys. So, if we switch to CHA leader on the turn the GSci is born, we can get 4 envoys for the price of 2, if we manage to get the Castles Eureka from the GSci. We currently have 5 Classic/Medieval Eurekas left (considering we'll boost Education when the GSci is born): build 2 galleys, improve 2 water resources, build an aqueduct, government with 6 policy slots (the castles one) and Feudalism civic. Feudalism will come before the GSci, so we need only one more to allow for a guaranteed Castles Eureka. Looking at the avaiable ones, I say we just tech one of the two water techs without the Eureka, because I don't think we'll reach them in time.

- Wow, Amenities really are bad for us right now.  I mean, I know you've said it many times, but seeing it is another thing.  How far away are zoos again?  

Yup. Nothing we can do right now, since even acquiring marble is not possible (not enough gold to purchase the tile - not that I'd do it if I had the gold). But it's not so bad, the penalties aren't that big. I'm trying to keep most cities at lower sizes, due to this, working the high hammer/low food tiles. The Capital is the exception, but it's likely to build a settler, anyway (and it's currently at +1 amenity).

Apart from suzerainity of Zanzibar (which I doubt people will let us have), I don't see a way out of this for quite some time, so i'm not worrying about it. We just have to keep all our cities at size 2.

- I see you've got a bit of a Eureka / Inspire chain set up and almost ready to go off!  Capital will finish the Water Mill next turn, which triggers the Eureka for Construction; finishing Construction will trigger the Eureka for Games & Recreation.  Both Construction & Games+Rec are just shy of half finished already, so we're probably 16 turns away from Feudalism as of right now?  That number will go down from growth a bit...

That's the plan. I'm only puting culture in Recorded History to avoid wastage. When construction is in, we'll go straight into Feudalism. Well, we could go for Military Training as well, to get another envoy for Zanzibar. We have the Inspiration already.

- Actually, War Weariness is starting to be a factor in that amenity crunch.  It's not widespread, but we have -2 in Desolation Row and -1 in Hard Rain right now.

And it's quite annoying. I'm not even sure if that's WW from Kaiser or Suboptimal. It further compounds the finish Kaiser or go for Suboptimal dilemma, but that will be sorted out soon, I think (everything will be clear after we take Glenfarclas).

- If you did decide to swing south and take out Kaiser now ... maybe it would be beneficial to then just take Preslav out at the same time.  Then we'd have the Battering Ram available for when we turn back north to take on suboptimal.  I only see Suboptimal building walls at Tomatin right now though, so .... honestly, it's a tough call.

The problem is that Preslav is tougher than Kaiser and Suboptimal. They have multiple horsemen running around (I wonder if they get their own Suzerain bonus)! It's a possibility, anyway.

- It really would be nice to send a unit to explore by the city-states.  Especially the area around Stockholm.  No idea where that unit is coming from, so yeah...

Right now we have no spare units, as we have an exploring party going west. The only avaiable unit is an archer in the middle of our Empire, but it's protecting the TR and watching from southern barbs (there's actually a scout messing around near Masters of War).

- Maybe Yerevan hasn't built a Holy Site yet because it doesn't have the ability to chop jungles?  Just a wild guess...

They can chop jungles, as they have already done it. The two farmed tiles to the south of the city were jungle tiles. It's not a problem righ now, though, as there's no capturing Yerevan plan.

Bacchus is the big mover over the last 6 turns.  He's now equal to us in civics and techs.  It's hard to say if he has completely caught up, as I know Ichabod has been banking some turns into waiting for eurekas and inspirations.  But I don't think there's any doubt that Bacchus has been gaining on us in civics & tech.  It'd be nice to meet him so we can see what his actual gain rates are.

For sure. He will quickly surpass us in tech and culture, considering his strategy (lots of faith + Jesuit Education). I think our long list of Eurekas will help us keep up for a bit. I hope that the bigger empire will fill the gap later. It's worrisome, for sure. And we actually have to watch out to avoid him investing a lot in Theaters and nabbing all the great works.

By the way, there's a chance we'll meet Bacchus next turn, as I'll show in the turn report.

[Ichabod]

I don't think Suboptimal's scout can kill us in one attack and I don't think he'll even attack. So, considering the settling lenses, we are probably going to meet someone next turn, either Bacchus or a CS.



As Pindicator psoted above, Suboptimal's military strength is a meager 76. I think we had triple that when we started the attack on Kaiser, a long time ago. My first move of the turn showed no units of his in sight. I decided to wait one more turn before moving in, to heal the horsemen for a turn + bring the archers. And then my brain turned off and I mvoed the horsemen into position to attack next turn... We have 2 36 strength horses and 2 34 strength horses. The city has 26 strength. Comparing it to Dalwhinnie, I think we can capture the city next turn, but it'll be close, either way.

Before commiting to the attack, I'll scout a bit with the full health horses, anyway. Perhaps Suboptimal has some archers behind the city, that could snipe a unit. A spearman could also be bad news.



My final positioning. The barb spear is on a camp, but attacking it would take my horseman to half strength. Even at such low health, the spear actually defends at a higher strengh than the horse, due to fortify, terrain and support bonuses.



Kaiser is building walls and finished the iron mine. He hasn't upgraded yet, because the city is low strength (his second warrior is also not inside the city). I'll start poking that warrior next turn with my archer, and I'll have a warrior + HC here soon as well.



Rowain cities are still at 10 defense, so his strongest unit are warriors. Considering his power, I think he must have a lot of archers (and he always have his Civ bonus to help as well).

[Ichabod]

Hey, Pindicator, why don't you propose a new Civ 6 PBEM? I can return you the favour and ded-lurk (I can play the turns when you can't, for example). I was going to propose a new game myself, but I already told myself too many times that more than one game is too much for me, so it's time to start listening. Anyway, I feel it's way more confortable to play Civ 6/Civ 5 than Civ 4, the games are way more simple and therefore less stressful. You just build a lot of military and it's pretty great.

[pindicator]

I've been thinking about doing exactly that since I saw Krill say he was interested. Looks like I need to make a post!

[pindicator]

- I see you've got a bit of a Eureka / Inspire chain set up and almost ready to go off!  Capital will finish the Water Mill next turn, which triggers the Eureka for Construction; finishing Construction will trigger the Eureka for Games & Recreation.  Both Construction & Games+Rec are just shy of half finished already, so we're probably 16 turns away from Feudalism as of right now?  That number will go down from growth a bit...

That's the plan. I'm only puting culture in Recorded History to avoid wastage. When construction is in, we'll go straight into Feudalism. Well, we could go for Military Training as well, to get another envoy for Zanzibar. We have the Inspiration already.

This just dawned on me, but RAID is unlocked with Military Training. If that is Bacchus to our east then perhaps in the near future we can take advantage of our fast-moving military at some point in the future to do a little Mongol horde roleplay in his lands? Obviously we have some more pressing matters in the near future, but it would be nice to boost our economy at his expense if he has neglected military.

[Ichabod]

Played 2 more turns.

I scouted around Glenfarclas and saw no units, so I decided to attack. The first horseman did 51 damage, which might be the max damage that can be cause by an advantage of 10 strength. The second one did on the lower side of the spectrum. In the end:



1 HP left. In the end, the movement I missed with my archer ended up costing the capture of the city. I dreamed about some worst case scenarios where Suboptimal would finish a spear and kill one of my horseman, but it was not to be.



I captured it next turn with the horse with the highest XP. Two of the other horses fortified in place to heal, while I got the archers to move closer. The healthier horseman went south to help against Kaiser. The idea here is to move the archers in position to attack Glenkinchie from the South, while the horses heal. After that, we move the horses to attack the city from the south as well. I'll likely need two turns to do it, but I can't see how Suboptimal defends, even when we'll take time to heal. His capital is on Walls, so no units.

The other big news is that we met Bacchus, as well as a new city state, Hattusa (which is size 8!).



He's making 13.7 culture, 18.5 science and 11.1 faith. So, we are still in the lead, in most categories. He just finished a Campus, so we are likely to see a Library going up. Truth be told, I wouldn't really mind losing the current Great Scientist to Bacchus, even though his value went a bit up now that getting the Eurekas will be worth some envoys.



This is our setup to attack Kaiser. The Sword was upgraded from a warrior and it has the +7 promotion against melee. The big problem here is that Ruinism is already at 1 follower in Osaka. I really hope Kaiser is working the best tiles, which makes it possible that he'll grow to size 3 before the city converting, but it's a risk. He's up to 10 techs, so IW has to be one of those... Next turn I'll shoot the warrior with the archer. If Kaiser promotes him, I can attack with the archer again + a horseman and a HC, with flanking bonuses. Will that be enough to kill a full strength warrior? I don't know. He could also upgrade the warrior to a sword, but that would mean no promotion.

I don't know, I'm really in doubt about what will happen here. There's a chance that one sword and city walls will neuter my attack, unfortunately. There's also a chance that my nightmare scenarios don't come true. It'll be a turn by turn thing, I don't really know what to expect, so I won't plan that much.



The Ram is ready, and I started a spearman, to counter the southern barbs. Hopefully, the ram can go north, without having to detour to Kaiser. The horseman barb is already a full strength one, so things just got a bit dicier. It's unfortunate that all the camps around me were horse camps, they are way more annoying.



Here's the expedition to clear the West. The idea is to fortify on the hills while the warrior and spear heals, in a way that we get decent suppotr bonuses. It won't be easy with horseman barbs. At least the spear gets 44 strength against horseman before any other bonuses, so once it's healed, we have a strong unit to defend with.

Also notice the settler being built (which will be faster once we reach size 5 and can work the copper tile - the Capital is growing really well with the 4f wheats) and the new Campus almost done.



New civics. They'll change in 4 turns, once we finish Military Training (which we are going solely for the envoy in Zanzibar). I'm considering changing to Classical Republic, due to the amenity bonuses in cities with a District. That would give us +3 amenities once the change is possible. It's hekpful, though it'll overlap with the Zanzibar bonus (which I don't know how long we''ll keep). The problem with Classical Republic is losing the Military Slot, so we'd have to choose between +2 GG points and the maintenance card. We'd also lose the strength on Melee units, which is helpful when you are in multiple conflicts. I think for now we keep Oligarchy, and we change once we lose Zanzibar's bonus and the wars are already decided.

[pindicator]

Another post, another city falls!

I think the war plan is moving fine. I don't have any concerns that you'll be able to topple Kaiser and Suboptimal. The only worry I have militarily is that either Bacchus or Rowain will try a surprise attack to knock down our invasion force. Especially Bacchus with those elephants -- the strength malus on those stack, so take care around them!

In the west are the barbs coming from campus west of the marble isthmus? That's a long way for them to come just to attack us. A little annoying to have all that land that we need to babysit.

As for the civic change, we really need some more income. I'm counting 13 gpt that conscription is saving us right now (4 horse, 1 hc, 1 sword, 5 archers, 1 battering ram, and 1 spear). So I don't think swapping off of that policy is an option right now. Once we grow onto the copper and plantation both bananas at Hard Rain that will get our income up to 15 and we'll be able to swap off conscription. Do we have any opportunities to fit a builder in for plantations? I know you mentioned wanting to prebuild builders before feudalism; we don't happen to have one almost built that would help with the gold income?

Edit: Also, is Geneva providing us with Silver? If not, let's definitely get one to hook up the silver we just captured!