Intersite Game - Turn Discussion Thread

[kjn]

Agree with Kalin. We need to keep a decent force in our western lands, and be able to quickly reinforce the cities (one or two galleys with axes, spears or WCs should do fine), but other than that I see little need for a dedicated military buildup.

We will get a few WCs for a mobile force and scouting, but those can be built "organically", as we grow our cities or from whip overflow.

Also, while a large part of our power is made up of pop and tech, the proportion is probably worse for the other teams. I'm going to draft a post about this soon in the C&D thread.

[Shoot the Moon]

I think you guys are exaggerating the threat. We have NAPs with the neighbors. WPC can barely play (their forum was/is down), the Germans are in a somewhat similar situation, CFC just let us see all their land and they are miles away, Civplayers are likely to not even know where we are. I think we are doing just fine. We should build some WCs when we can fit them in and that's it imo.

Kalin

This. By the time our NAPs expire, we could be close to knights if we so desire. Remember, we have NAPs with all of our contacted neighbors and two of those three are already at war and effectively out of this game. Give it another 30t of our tech and expansion pace and those two won't even be able to remotely threaten us--and there's not foreseeable reason we can't have NAPs over those entire 30t+.

[mostly_harmless]

While I agree with kalin, kjn and shoot, I just want to point out that NAPs are not set in stone.

[scooter]

I mean, we've met three teams so far: WPC, German team, CFC. We are not touching borders with any of these teams. CFC is not attacking us soon, they just went out of their way to extend a NAP with us, and there's no sign of a military build-up from them - they're way below us in power! WPC is not only at war with another team, but despite the build-up you would assume would happen in war, their power is BELOW ours. Surely we're not worried about that.

So that leaves the German team - the team that is so inactive that their turn player just plays and waits for input that never comes. Do you really think that team is in the middle of some smokescreen war (one they lost a city from) in order to send a bunch of units traipsing through the jungle at us?

No, we're fine right now. Building units that we'll just obsolete in 25T is not a good investment. Sure we should get a few units into the Brick by Brick location to make sure we're covered with the mostly unknown CivPlayers team over there, but that's about it.

[Gold Ergo Sum]

crosspost: Have WPC/Team Turnholders stopped exchanging units? If so, this bears watching with some scouting units in the jungle, just to be safe. I certainly acknowledge the possibility that the war would provide perfect cover to sneak in a back stab on us, and this would explain the lack of response to scooter's diplo messages. I just don't think these two cooperating is likely. I have a hard time believing that the German team will be in a mood to cooperate much with WPC going forward after the pain that they've had to inflict on their civ from all the whipping.

Considering we just agreed to renew an NAP with WPC, I think any fears here are a little ludicrous. If people want to win through obvious lying and dealbreaking, then I think we just have to live with that risk. Who wants to bother playing in a game with people like that to begin with?

We definitely have the second largest army in the world right now, the most available pop points to whip into an emergency army, the tech lead, and the best micro and C&D department in the game. While more military is desirable, we don't want to spend too much time building units that will be outdated before anyone bothers to attack us. I have next to zero concerns militarily in the short term.

[kjn]

While I agree with m_h here, that should be mostly relevant for a situation similar to PB7 and Lord Parkin, and we don't run a minimal military. And that's why we need to keep a constant eye on the power values and look for military builds among our neighbours.

A dogpile on us? Lets see:

Among our closest neighbours, we have excellent diplomatic contacts with CFC, where Scooter is confident that he can pick up hints of aggression. CFC is also a long way away, with excellent land for War Chariots between us.

WPC has the worst unit matchup against War Chariots, and their team is in disarray right now. Also good diplomatic contacts.

The Germans also functions badly as a team, and are hopelessly behind in tech. The language barrier will also make them very hard to court for a dogpile, while m_h has managed to build good relations with their turn-players.

The Spanish could contribute to a dogpile, but the language barrier is probably even worse in their case, and they're paranoid about NAP and diplomacy, as per CFC's description (and we know why). Not a good start for a dogpile there, either.

I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of the French teams (CivFr and Univers) also had a significant language barrier. And all of the teams, except WPC, seems to have worked for peaceful builder games so far.

I see absolutely no reason to worry about a dogpile. Lets keep an eye on the power levels, build modest levels of military units, get a sentry network out, and keep the diplomatic channels open. Once we've finished Currency, we will research Masonry and will be only one tech away from catapults. Even if some raiding force manages to take out our copper, we can connect iron at almost any time.

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

Let me be clear: I think there is very, very little risk for us right now and in the immediate future. My post earlier is describing the operational level, worst-case possibility of warring subterfuge between WPC and the Germans that I don't even remotely believe can happen given the relations between WPC and Team Germany. I do not advocate doing more than the "organic" unit production that kjn mentioned. War Chariots for scouting and barb thwacking, and units for support of our presumptive western cities, Brick by Brick and whatever we can carve out of the western flood plains. Let's not get crazy, we're just fine.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

Yep, organic military, but I still advocate for a short burst of military around the time we settle BbB, to defend an exposed city. Civplayers are the ones I've always been scared of.

[kjn]

I recommend a look at the current micro plan.

[Tyrmith]

100% agree with Kalin. Not only do we have a good unit mix to deal with any sudden aggression as Sullla recently pointed out, but we are definitely not flying blind. We know what other teams are building and have about as solid relationships with everyone as can be realistically hoped for.

As for the worry about being too noticeably ahead, I definitely think that's a legitimate worry, but I really don't think there's anything we can do about it. We either play as bad as them so that we don't get ahead, or we should imo go full steam ahead as much as possible, and hope that we can bait people against each other till we're able to stand alone successfully. Especially with such weak neighbors to cannibalize, I really do we can make this work.