[SPOILERS] swance bitten, twice shy

[ljubljana]

Similarly why CRE is better than it looks.

[ljubljana]

note the tree change means we're in the northern hemisphere (probably)

i will be simming immediate AH swap -> delay wheel into after BW, city 1N of the new cow looks kinda terrible long-term (sheesh, we can farm EVERYthing and still not have food to work all the tiles) but it's possible the growth curve speedup from skipping wheel is enough that we have no choice

we also have a scouting dilemma... i hate to do this but i think i'm leaning towards turning SW into the depressing hills. it feels like we really shouldn't leave river-connected first-ring tiles unexplored when the settler comes out, even ones with no visible food that are very unlikely to contain the best second city spot

[ljubljana]

forgot to swap to slavery again (so it's correct to compare t41 above to the following t40 screenie) but

[ljubljana]

another try: improve wheat -> cow -> deer -> ivory



what about bronze working, then animal husbandry, and just accept that the second city will work an unimproved cow for most of size 1:



not too bad, we're out a bunch of forests and one turn slower on pottery but are up a worker, and we retain the flexibility to swap to slavery and settle for copper if we neighbor egypt or otherwise feel that we have to

another other try, which i figured could not possibly be a workable idea until i tried it: BW first, then a second worker BEFORE the settler



trades a bit of time on pottery and near-total deforestation for, omg, most of a fourth settler at the capital! note the fourth worker at the second city is not actually coming out later than in the previous sims, the chop just comes in at the end of the build instead of the beginning. and indeed, the second city is working an unimproved cow for much less time

do people do a second worker before the first settler ever? it seems viable here but really goes against my vague and ill-formed instincts

for contrast: the one where we let the capital grow to size 3 before the settler



^^ we are in slavery here so not quite as relatively slow as it looks but still

in the second-worker-first scenario, if we take it out to turn 50 and are willing to be, like, maximally aggressive about chops, we reach the following position, which is so cute it kinda makes me wanna throw up:



cities are badly out of stuff to build now - the first two have ikhandas and the third has a half-finished one. but this is probably about when pumping military starts to make sense anyways

10 turns later we'd be, like.... roughly here, i guess?



is that "good enough" to be a productionized, actual in-game opening? uh.... i dunno

[aetryn]

I'd say don't get too attached to a detailed micro plan, as we don't have some critical information yet (who's next to us, and what does the border region look like). Just do enough to decide on tech plans, basically. And value flexibility - if a particular tech path works but ONLY because we're settling in one specific spot, then it might not be flexible enough to survive necessary revisions.

[ljubljana]

I'd say don't get too attached to a detailed micro plan, as we don't have some critical information yet (who's next to us, and what does the border region look like). Just do enough to decide on tech plans, basically. And value flexibility - if a particular tech path works but ONLY because we're settling in one specific spot, then it might not be flexible enough to survive necessary revisions.

yeahh agreed. luckily it looks like nothing too viable is ruled out by continuing mining research - the second cow does mean there exists a plan with mining - AH - BW that is at least as good (short-term anyway) as the AH + wheel + plains hill settle plan

Turn 6 - Zululand



is this about when i start regretting not taking celts? probably not, having a blank mysticism tech would be a disaster in any of these micro plans pretty much. tokuzulu should be able to spit out scary G2 muskets almost as easily (ikhanda + one of the +2 civics)... and unlike the best-case scenario for celts there are a fair few broad, flat plains too where their bonuses would not be so useful

[Tarkeel]

Similarly why CRE is better than it looks.

Assuming plainshill by wheat; CRE would give the forest(s) in range in time for chopping into granary. In this case, you'd be able to rely on capital culture to claim them, but that's still T51.

[ljubljana]

Assuming plainshill by wheat; CRE would give the forest(s) in range in time for chopping into granary. In this case, you'd be able to rely on capital culture to claim them, but that's still T51.

yeahh i posted that because i thought it was funny how you were proven right literally immediately after saying it

CRE's second city here with both cows and the wheat in range is definitely significantly better than anything non-CRE can reasonably do... although i guess i take some solace in the fact that this land is soooo food-poor that the wheat might need to be split off for NE cottage city anyways

sheesh, what are we going to DO with all those riverside plains? wheat city can work most of what's in range of it but it slows down the start significantly relative to cow city on the river. but if we go with cow city we'll be literally growing onto plains river farms.... unless a city that works two cows, two grass, and 5 plains river towns (and is food-capped at size 9) is considered a "good enough" use of this land

[ljubljana]

seven



man, it sure is looking like there are going to be wide swathes of land that are just..../empty/ for most of this game due to total lack of food... i mean, what possible use could anyone derive from a city where the scout is right now? i guess as a civ6 player i should be used to that phenomenon but really something about large stretches of open space still just rubs me the wrong way

[aetryn]

seven



man, it sure is looking like there are going to be wide swathes of land that are just..../empty/ for most of this game due to total lack of food... i mean, what possible use could anyone derive from a city where the scout is right now? i guess as a civ6 player i should be used to that phenomenon but really something about large stretches of open space still just rubs me the wrong way

Well, I suppose it's good to know that southeast isn't a direction to prioritize expanding in. There are probably SOME resources in the desert, but might just be intended as a dead area between players. It's interesting in that it allows us to be able to reach some neighbors without being in direct competition for land with them - similar to what an ocean would do, only much, much slower.

So far this looks like a great map for Spiritual leaders, since they can mostly stay in Serfdom without losing the ability to whip, and Serfdom likes farms and windmills (and watermills, but those are less relevant here). This terrain screams windmills and we'll probably need more farms than normal also. I'm split on FIN/PRO - we've seen a lot of riverlands, which tend to be good for FIN, but if they have to be farmed because there isn't much food, than the static boost of PRO will be better than expected. And yes, CRE looks better when food resources are sparser.

It's a long way off, and will depend on neighbor relations, but we might need to consider if we can live with no whipping between first and second Golden Age and switch over to Serfdom ourselves.