Dave's Not Throwing Away His Shot

[rho21]

 - Archduke being able to make peace with Hattusa (Bug)

Did Archduke's scout that pillaged your trade route ever make contact with Hattusa? If not, perhaps the game doesn't allow you to be at war with someone you haven't met... and then doesn't handle it particularly gracefully in terms of notifications.

Keep up the great reporting.

[Zero_1627]

I'd add one more entry to list:
- Pillaged district still provides adjacency bonuses (Bug/Feature?)

[Zero_1627]

Compared to Your initial plan and expectations, recent war has cut You down very seriously - You haven't been able to take 'natural frontier' You wanted, suffered pillages, wasn't able to expand or build infrastructure for a long time...

On war mistakes list - I'd add founding Lafayette on Your part. It was wildly optimistic, and forced You on western front to defend two cities (one fresh) instead of just one (relatively easily fortified and in defensible position). Situation at the moment of founding wasn't all that shiny either (even if You weren't at actual shooting war with Archduke yet). Had You gone for a backfill city - Your military would have more tactical options, and new city could go on economic infrastructure from the start (as it needs...).

You're still in game though - time to think how to get back up? Economic buildup seems mandatory (and expansion very nice - I see You have that planned), and I like Your plan of spoiling attack on Woden (just don't try to actually take his cities - unless wild opportunity arises - just pillage him to stone age and force to concentrate on military - and maybe someone else will feel invited to dogpile? ).

Those are more or less opportunistic/forced moves however - ones that let You continue, not going to a victory condition. Do You have a plan for that, or just 'let's get back on feet and then see what comes'?

[Rowain]

 - Archduke being able to make peace with Hattusa (Bug)

Did Archduke's scout that pillaged your trade route ever make contact with Hattusa? If not, perhaps the game doesn't allow you to be at war with someone you haven't met... and then doesn't handle it particularly gracefully in terms of notifications.

In SP it doesn't matter if you have met them before or not. You stay at war as long as their suzerain is at war with you. What happened here is a mystery. Is it sure it was Archduke and Hattusa that made peace?

Keep up the great reporting.

+1

[yuris125]

In SP it doesn't matter if you have met them before or not. You stay at war as long as their suzerain is at war with you. What happened here is a mystery. Is it sure it was Archduke and Hattusa that made peace?  

In PBEM1 I was also able to make peace with a CS when at war with its suzerain

[oledavy]

As a global lurker on a mechanics question, I think I can say that ZoC is working as intended. The way it works is that once a unit enters a ZoC, it can attack any adjacent unit, not necessarily the one exerting ZoC. So the Horseman ZoC worked fine, it's just that the Sword could still attack the adjacent Archer.
I can't speak for the rest, but I think Sulla mentioned that Bastions wasn't working as expected in his PBEM 1 thread?

Anyway, it's been a pleasure reading along. Keep it up!

Ah, I thought once a unit entered another's ZOC, it could only attack the unit exerting ZOC? Good to know if that is indeed not the case. The other explanation I had in mind was that ZOC doesn't extend into an enemy city, or that mounted units don't give ZOC.

Clearly I should have read Sullla's thread more closely   Hopefully with it being reported twice now, future players will be aware that the Civic is misleading. 

Thanks!

Did Archduke's scout that pillaged your trade route ever make contact with Hattusa? If not, perhaps the game doesn't allow you to be at war with someone you haven't met... and then doesn't handle it particularly gracefully in terms of notifications.

Keep up the great reporting. 

I don't know. In my SP experience, you meed the CS as soon as you're at war with its suzerain - regardless of whether or not you have met it previously. I'll try! Hope the lurkers are having a good time

In SP it doesn't matter if you have met them before or not. You stay at war as long as their suzerain is at war with you. What happened here is a mystery. Is it sure it was Archduke and Hattusa that made peace?   

I mean, the game definitely could have given me a fake notification   Perhaps one of you could go ask Archduke in his thread, and try to work this out? I don't think it would be particularly spoilerly or leading to do so at this point. 

In PBEM1 I was also able to make peace with a CS when at war with its suzerain

That is not at all in line with my SP experience, weird...

I'd add one more entry to list:
- Pillaged district still provides adjacency bonuses (Bug/Feature?)

Almost forgot about this one, although I've come around to seeing it as a feature at this point (albeit a highly counterintuitive one). If anyone does discover otherwise, please post. 

On war mistakes list - I'd add founding Lafayette on Your part. It was wildly optimistic, and forced You on western front  to defend two cities (one fresh) instead of just one (relatively easily fortified and in defensible position). Situation at the moment of founding wasn't all that shiny either (even if You weren't at actual shooting war with Archduke yet). Had You gone for a backfill city - Your military would have more tactical options, and new city could go on economic infrastructure from the start (as it needs...).

You seem to forget that without Lafayette, I would not have had any horses at all. I would have preferred to settle a backline, but it was that or fight without a 36 strength unit  

Do You have a plan for that, or just 'let's get back on feet and then see what comes'?

Plan remains the same, become a hegemonic power through absorbing at least one neighbor and acquiring the capability to project my power wherever necessary. That's a long way off at this point, however.

[oledavy]

Turn 75

Well, Archduke accepted my DOF!



There is precious little information about DOFs online or in game, but I believe it locks him into peace with me for 30/50 turns. I'm going to plan on the former and be pleasantly surprised if it's the latter. If it's the latter, it's basically the exact amount of time I need to expand, build infrastructure and be ready for another war. Given the length, I'm really surprised Archduke signed on with me, but he's been signing them left and right, so I guess he knows what he's doing. 

At any rate, he and I are going to be bosom pals for awhile, and I'll return for Buenos Aires at some later date   If any of the lurking community can confirm 30/50 one way or another, please share! I am continually shocked by just how little is explained and how little is known about many of Civ6's mechanics. 

This prolonged peace, until turn 105 at earliest, affords me an intriguing opportunity, but I'll get back to that in a moment. 



Sure buddy, get those horsemen back to your lands faster, I hope you actually do go attack Alhambram or Woden. Speaking of the latter. 



It only took me 75 turns, but I finally met everyone. This seemingly makes it likely Woden is in the northwest and Alhambram is in the southeast. Let's look at his screens. 



He and Alhambram are both in Autocracy. For comparison, Singaboy and I are in Classical Republic, and Archduke is still in Oligarchy. 




Five cities, one commercial district completed. How do I know?



Looks like that GM is completely out of reach for me. However, seeing this alerted me to something. There's no way he could be making 3 GM points per turn this early, unless he has 3 commercial hubs (unlikely) or Oracle (No notification). However, I've heard the wonder completion sounds twice over the last bunch of turns without a notification that he completed a wonder. Is the game messing with me again...

I reloaded the save to check an hour later. 



Yep! The game notified us for Pyramids, HG, and Stonehenge, but not for Oracle and a 5th wonder (Wonders are 4 points each in score, and he has 20, so he definitely completed a 5th). It almost certainly was Petra. Making me pretty glad I didn't end up going for it - although I think I could have beaten him if I hadn't been forced to fight a war. I bet my Petra location is a lot better than his was though 

Also, in meeting him, I learned the sound for meeting CS's and players is the same, so when I heard him meeting "City-states" a bunch of turns ago, that was him meeting Archduke and Singaboy. 

Anyway, Woden continues to be a force to be reckoned with. However, this almost certainly scuppers my raid on him. The encampment and warrior are blocking at least one route westward, and the central route may be completely blocked off by mountains. At the very least, there are a ton of hills. It may take a very long time to get to him, and now, he knows I'm moving at least 1 horsemen in that direction. Besides, there are better things I can do with my horsemen closer to home, now that I have Archduke locked into eternal peace...



Me and Singaboy's peace treaty is up on t79. I didn't remember this until after I played the turn, otherwise I would have queued the battering ram back up and started moving the southern horse back this turn. Still, I think I can get everyone in range to begin the attack in 6-8 turns. This is the perfect opportunity for me to take Seoul. Archduke is locked into peace. I have an expensive and powerful military without other targets of opportunity, that is still current for 15 more turns or so. Most importantly, I am currently at 300 power to Singaboy's 200. I should be able to fight this war without adding any additional units to my military, save the battering ram. Any losses will make my economy stronger and would be obsolete soon anyway. 

So, in sum, it's time to retake Seoul. That is likely my only objective, take and ask for it's cession in exchange for peace. He might get crossbows before I get there, but I doubt it, and I don't think the single crossbow he might have would stop 4 horsemen and 1 swordsmen. The walls will almost certainly be finished by the time I get there, but eh. 

He does have a swordsman on the Korean highway however, which means he will have some forewarning. So yeah, opportunistic limited war with Singaboy, coming in 6-8 turns. 

My hoplite and archer will stay north to protect my settlers against barbs and ensure settling goes okay. Hopefully I can find the troublesome encampment before it spawns more horsemen. Since I have no need of units in the west, I can move everything else to attack Singaboy. My attack force will consist of: 

4 Horsemen
1 Swordsman
2 Archers
1 Heavy Chariot
1 Battering Ram

While I'm getting ready for this attack, I'll be continuing to expand my economic base. Singaboy will likely want to peace out sooner rather than later, so he can finish CH's and Hansas, securing his long-term position. That's fine, as long as I have Seoul to be a worthless buffer city against an attack on Hamilton. It even has a campus so I can get the Recorded History Eureka. In sum, scratch the attack on Woden, we're going to fight the final battle of the Great War and retake Seoul.

[oledavy]

Turn 76

Turns are coming fast and furious this morning. 

Threw down a couple of mines and got the Apprenticeship Eureka. 



Better late than never. Singaboy started a TR out of Seoul. 



That's probably his just completed second trader. Alhambram finally got that Great Prophet. 



Meanwhile, Woden settled his sixth city....

It's notable that he likely has Apprenticeship finished. 



He also finished another wonder between turns. I wonder if I'll get the notification this time....

If I had to guess, it would be Colosseum at his capital, where I can't see if he has an Entertainment District or not. Hopefully that's where Archduke is going. 

[Rowain]

DOF should last 30 turns.

[Zero_1627]

On war mistakes list - I'd add founding Lafayette on Your part

You seem to forget that without Lafayette, I would not have had any horses at all. I would have preferred to settle a backline, but it was that or fight without a 36 strength unit  

indeed I did forget that mionor fact . I take it back then - it was not a mistake, just tough luck.