A new mod enters the ring - Introducing "Close to Home"

[Charriu]

I'd personally like to see fewer changes though, not more. It's OK if not every trait and civ ends up being perfectly balanced - a game can have stronger and weaker options and still be fantastic.

Expect the next changelog to be smaller.

[Charriu]

With slavery out of the way, we can return to traits. Right now I think AGG is the weakest of all the traits. Like I already said I think it needs a smaller economic bonus. In BtS the AGG bonus only really comes into effect when you go to war. But in order to go to war you need an army first. That's why I did give the barracks 1 happiness from AGG, so that you can whip a bit more during those early turns. I'm not sure that this is enough though. I would have to see how the AGG leaders in PB52 are thinking about the trait and how well it served them. In the past I also had the idea of giving "+1 hammer on strategic resources" but that sounds even weaker then the happiness.

Now I still think that giving AGG the stable bonus is wrong as it just pushes it even more into the "you need to fight" portion of the bonus. Now there's one thing that might be worth thinking about and that is giving the colosseum bonus to AGG. The reason for that is, that I will give Colosseums a 25% war weariness reduction, like jails. But the question is would this be enough? And what about CHA which would only have the monument production bonus compared to BtS?

The big problem with AGG is finding an economic bonus that also fits with the theme of being militaristic and overall aggressive. Here some more random ideas I or others had in the past:

• Angry citizens generate +1 hammer (Not really a bonus and not something you might be working towards.)
  
• Reducing unit maintenance (Not really an early bonus, but it keeps you teching while maintaining a bigger army, this might be worth checking out)
  
• Reducing unit supply maintenance (Only helps during war and weaker than aboves bonus)
  
• A bonus around pillaging (Fitting, but only useful during war)
  
• A bonus tied to slavery like the Aztecs UB slavery bonus (Still thematic, because it's aggressive towards your own people, might be too strong especially with unnerfed slavery)
  
• Good old "+X% military unit production in all cities" (Hardest challenge here is finding the correct X)
  
• +1 hammer on the city tile (This initially was an idea for Protective, which makes every city spot as good as a plains hill, helps with getting new cities up to speed)
  
• introduce a new specialist "general", which generates points towards Great Generals (Too far away from BtS)
  
• A tile that produces 3 or more hammers produces +1 commerce. (Found in the ancient RtR discussion, mh interesting, have to think about it)
  

[Cornflakes]

Another idea for AGG - give Barracks +1 culture. (EDIT: culture alone may be sufficient without the additional +1 happy that has already been added)

This provides AGG an option to pop borders without Mysticism, but compared to CRE still costs hammers and is a slower border pop.

[Charriu]

That's the solution from RtR. I don't like to dive that much into the theme of other traits. That's also one reason why I don't like the current +1 happiness from barracks solution. But it's definitely an option to consider.

[Mjmd]

It is also the case that not all traits can be evaluated in a vacuum. Different traits are stronger on different types of maps / difficulty levels. Do you want to super buff aggressive and then people play on a smaller map where it might already be attractive? In the same vein no one has chosen organized or spiritual in their unchanged states in either CtH game but aggressive has been chosen 3 times. Organized is obviously more valuable on higher difficulty, but yet Realms plays most MP games on Monarch do you change based on that / normal types of maps? I would argue no. Also, some vet please play spiritual soon so we can see it in action.

That being said if you wanted to buff aggressive a bit more and keep the change log down why not +2 happiness to barracks? Keep it simple.

[scooter]

• Reducing unit maintenance (Not really an early bonus, but it keeps you teching while maintaining a bigger army, this might be worth checking out)
  
• Reducing unit supply maintenance (Only helps during war and weaker than aboves bonus)
  
• Good old "+X% military unit production in all cities" (Hardest challenge here is finding the correct X)
  
• +1 hammer on the city tile (This initially was an idea for Protective, which makes every city spot as good as a plains hill, helps with getting new cities up to speed)
  

These ideas interest me the most. The third one is appealing in a vacuum, but I agree it sounds incredibly hard to balance, and that may eliminate it in reality. The first one sounds really promising, but it may be hard for it to be impactful enough? I think it fits thematically, and it helps undo one of the issues with Aggressive - the non-Aggressive player just has more military because they have more money or more cities, which undoes your promotion advantage. I also like that it doesn't require a big playstyle change or learning curve. You just have more money than someone with a similarly sized army. That sounds about right.

[Sullla]

The free promotion from Aggressive trait was always seen as a strong option in pre-release Civ4 testing and there was little need to give the trait much else aside from the thematically-linked double speed barracks. Aggressive is viewed as being weak here because the games tend to be heavily economic focused. I don't really like most of the suggestions floated here because they just look to find various ways to turn Aggressive into another economic trait and that's not what it should be about. This should be the trait that you take if you want to smash in some faces and have other players scared to fight your army. What if you did this for a simple trait change:

Aggressive: free Combat I promotion for melee, gunpowder, and mounted units

Could easily be too strong but that's the direction I think the trait should take, not finding various ways to turn the fighting trait into another form of who can build the better economy.

[Charriu]

It is also the case that not all traits can be evaluated in a vacuum. Different traits are stronger on different types of maps / difficulty levels. Do you want to super buff aggressive and then people play on a smaller map where it might already be attractive? In the same vein no one has chosen organized or spiritual in their unchanged states in either CtH game but aggressive has been chosen 3 times. Organized is obviously more valuable on higher difficulty, but yet Realms plays most MP games on Monarch do you change based on that / normal types of maps? I would argue no.  Also, some vet please play spiritual soon so we can see it in action.

That being said if you wanted to buff aggressive a bit more and keep the change log down why not +2 happiness to barracks? Keep it simple.

I think one reason ORG and SPI were not chosen is because people wanted to try the new ones. They were definitely considered by some players.

I'm definitely aware of different maps. AGG doesn't need to be super-buffed just a bit better.

• Reducing unit maintenance (Not really an early bonus, but it keeps you teching while maintaining a bigger army, this might be worth checking out)
  
• Reducing unit supply maintenance (Only helps during war and weaker than aboves bonus)
  
• Good old "+X% military unit production in all cities" (Hardest challenge here is finding the correct X)
  
• +1 hammer on the city tile (This initially was an idea for Protective, which makes every city spot as good as a plains hill, helps with getting new cities up to speed)
  

These ideas interest me the most. The third one is appealing in a vacuum, but I agree it sounds incredibly hard to balance, and that may eliminate it in reality. The first one sounds really promising, but it may be hard for it to be impactful enough? I think it fits thematically, and it helps undo one of the issues with Aggressive - the non-Aggressive player just has more military because they have more money or more cities, which undoes your promotion advantage. I also like that it doesn't require a big playstyle change or learning curve. You just have more money than someone with a similarly sized army. That sounds about right.

As a variant of unit maintenance I'm thinking about adding the following:

Barracks gives +1 free unit (like the civic vassalage does.

Now there is the argument that unit maintenance is only good if you build a huge army and go to war. That is certainly true, but even in peace/builder mode you normally run quiet a few worker and military units serving as MP in your cities.

[Charriu]

The free promotion from Aggressive trait was always seen as a strong option in pre-release Civ4 testing and there was little need to give the trait much else aside from the thematically-linked double speed barracks. Aggressive is viewed as being weak here because the games tend to be heavily economic focused. I don't really like most of the suggestions floated here because they just look to find various ways to turn Aggressive into another economic trait and that's not what it should be about. This should be the trait that you take if you want to smash in some faces and have other players scared to fight your army. What if you did this for a simple trait change:

Aggressive: free Combat I promotion for melee, gunpowder, and mounted units

Could easily be too strong but that's the direction I think the trait should take, not finding various ways to turn the fighting trait into another form of who can build the better economy.  

Good points. I do think giving Combat I to mounted units is too strong mainly because mounted units are already very strong thanks to stables and the speed advantage.
I do agree that this is the trait "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women". But would you say a unit maintenance reduction would turn this into an economic trait like the others? I see the unit maintenance reduction in the same vain as the barracks bonus

[scooter]

The mounted idea is pretty interesting. This does mean something like Aggressive Mongolia could get 4 promo Knights with very little effort, and commando 2 movers would be achievable with some extra effort (or Boudica). That does sound potentially OP, but then again, I'll believe a trait with no economic bonus beyond 25h for 1 happy is OP when I see it demonstrated.