[PB78] Underdogs and undercats: The Mrrshan warlords visit the world of Civ IV

[thrawn]

Are there any rules about putting units under your opponent's and maybe around them, and then declaring for a controlled teleportation? Gav and I will be able to use this against each other if we get a cease fire, and I'd like to know what's allowed and what isn't.

[scooter]

Are there any rules about putting units under your opponent's and maybe around them, and then declaring for a controlled teleportation? Gav and I will be able to use this against each other if we get a cease fire, and I'd like to know what's allowed and what isn't.

No real rules around this. I think the feeling is if you're willing to play teleport roulette, more power to you. We've had far more teleport misadventures than teleport successes.

[thrawn]

Thanks for the warning. Can you point me to a few of the misadventures to see what kind of things can go wrong?

[thrawn]

A few questions about trade deals. I asked Dreylin for copper and he's willing to send!

1. Can the other players see that I'll have copper now? Will it show up in my trade screen or if it's elsewhere will they actually look wherever it is shown? Or do I just need to build a spear and flaunt it?
2. Are deals enforced for 10 turns and either player can cancel but they automatically continue if not cancelled? It's T59 now so will Dreylin be able to cancel on T69?
3. If I close the game without selecting either option, will the trade offer show up again when I log in next time? I've already finished turn so if I can accept it on T60 to last until T70 it would be great because my capital will grow to 4 on T68 and I can double whip a couple then - but it would be bad if Dreylin cancels on T69 before the second has come out.
4. What happens actually when you lose access to a resource - will the hammers in the spears remain there but I just can't work on it and even if it was whipped and is 100% ready, it will stay at completed but never get produced? Will the production start decaying after 10 turns as with other units?

[Cyneheard]

A few questions about trade deals. I asked Dreylin for copper and he's willing to send!

1. Can the other players see that I'll have copper now? Will it show up in my trade screen or if it's elsewhere will they actually look wherever it is shown? Or do I just need to build a spear and flaunt it?
2. Are deals enforced for 10 turns and either player can cancel but they automatically continue if not cancelled? It's T59 now so will Dreylin be able to cancel on T69?
3. If I close the game without selecting either option, will the trade offer show up again when I log in next time? I've already finished turn so if I can accept it on T60 to last until T70 it would be great because my capital will grow to 4 on T68 and I can double whip a couple then - but it would be bad if Dreylin cancels on T69 before the second has come out.
4. What happens actually when you lose access to a resource - will the hammers in the spears remain there but I just can't work on it and even if it was whipped and is 100% ready, it will stay at completed but never get produced? Will the production start decaying after 10 turns as with other units?

1) They won't see it on the player-trade screen, but they can see it under F4.
2) Yes, unless a resource becomes unavailable for one/both of you.
3) Not 100% certain how that works - Pitbosses and having trade windows open can get weird.
4) I believe that's a correct description.

[RefSteel]

Thanks for the warning. Can you point me to a few of the misadventures to see what kind of things can go wrong?

The most recent teleport-gone-wrong examples I can think of are from the still-ongoing PB74. The most-recent example of at least two are more is... (PB74 spoilers)

from Gavagai's thread, which also has an earlier case, I believe.

An example of it going hilariously right in a low-impact event was mentioned recently too: from pindicator's Pitboss 18 thread.

It's easy to go wrong if you don't know the mechanics in detail (see e.g. Charriu's description in the "Curious Civplayer" thread) or if you're working with incomplete information (e.g. enemy units or borders in the fog can block teleportation to their tiles) of if you're near the world wrap and don't take it into account (especially on a toroidal map where the world wraps in two spots) since the "tiebreaker" favors Southern and then Western tiles relative to the map's coordinate system, not relative to the position of the units. Border pop teleportation can mess up predictions too since borders actually pop into neutral territory one tile at a time, all in the same interturn, with a separate teleportation check triggered after each new tile is gained - and then contested tiles changing hands follows its own set of rules as well. So depending on the situation, there are a lot of things that can go wrong.

And adding on to what Cyneheard said about resource trades:

2) There is a way to cancel a deal before the ten turns are up: If you declare war, all deals with the target are automatically canceled, even if there is normally time left on their "clock."

3) I believe if you close the game, the game will count it as refusing the deal, but I haven't tested this in ... ... more than a decade? So I don't really know for sure. If you stay in-game, neither accepting nor refusing the trade deal, until somebody else rolls the turn, then you are absolutely forging ahead into new game mechanics territory, and you'll have to tell us what happens....

4) Also note that once you get access to the resource again, even if you still have enough hammers in the unit to complete it, you have to actively put it at the front of the build queue again in order to actually produce it. (Also, when producing a unit that relies on a resource you are unsure of keeping through the end of the turn, it's probably a good idea to queue something else behind the unit, so that hammers produced on that interturn will go into an actual build in case you lose access to the needed resources.)

Good luck executing your plan to claw your way back into the game! (With retractable claws, naturally, being Mrrshan!)

[xist10]

Sorry, abit late, but most things are said.

To 3) You can't close the game (ingame) without dealing with the trade screen first.
I don't know whats happens, if you kill Civ via Taskmanager, but you shouldn't do that - this (can) create problems for the PB Server.

You exit the PB via "exit to main menu", or ? Exit to desktop can create the same problems.



Towards teleport gone horrible good: The CF PB 98.
Burned the (unnerfed) Great Lighthouse city.
Same player again in the Pb74 send an army from scooters island to the mainland in the backline of the enemy player.

scooter as game leader said, no problems with teleport here, so feel free to master this "black magic".
But I think the general rule is "don't be a dick". So you shouldn't really try to teleport unitsx (for a strategic advantage) and if you got something liek our PB89, don't use it.

[thrawn]

Thanks Cyne and Ref and Xist. In the end I accepted the deal right away because it was much more important to have certain copper immediately than any future optimisations. I’ll venture into new game mechanics territory another time!

Teleportation sounds just like the kind of thing I like to have fun with and Charriu’s description is outstanding. So it should work? We shall see when a good opportunity arises.

Actually do you know the exact border popping patterns when settling a city and for 1st/2nd/3rd ring expansions? It would be good to be aware of them.

[xist10]

I uploaded a few WB Tests.

And if I recall a linked teleport right, the expansions starts with the tile w of the city.

   

   

   

   

   

[shallow_thought]

Actually do you know the exact border popping patterns when settling a city and for 1st/2nd/3rd ring expansions? It would be good to be aware of them.

If I've understood the question, then you always get first ring on settling, 2nd after generating 10 points of culture, 3rd after 100 points (inclusive of the original 10), 4th after 500 - hence the standard 5t / 50t for a non-CRE capital generating 2 points per turn from the palace hitting 2nd and 3rd ring.

That's assuming that you're uncontested on the tiles, and that CtH hasn't made changes from BtS. The problem is how to generate the culture if you're not CRE ...