RB PBEM #1 - Mehmed (SPOILERS!)

[Dreylin]

Rounding it out, I have a chat with Ruff about Techs & Great Spies:

Ruff.Hi: oh - and don't worry about the missionary for me

me: Oh, you're going to spread Conf?

Ruff.Hi: no - I just wanted culture to match sooooo
in DV

me: Sure

Ruff.Hi: where are you teching at the moment / next?
I am finishing calendar in (1) and starting to think about next tech

me: Just finished IW

Ruff.Hi: so did / is athlete
you got iron?
do I?

me: Yeah, he's a couple of turns behind I think
I do
Haven't seen enough of your land yet.

Ruff.Hi: ok, well if I don't, I'll just borrow yours

me: Uh-huh

Ruff.Hi: I was thinking about this the other day ... and if you can trade resources each turn then we could both have iron

me: Drat, 1t for Calendar
I still need Sailing
Athlete is 3-4t off
Hmmmm

Ruff.Hi: you trade to me, trade doesn't 'take' until I accept so you get to use it during your biuld cycle, then I trade it back and it doesn't take until you accept so I get to use it during teh build cycle

me: That seems awfully "exploit"-ish

Ruff.Hi: I'm going to set up a hotseat game to test that
totally exploitish
but a good way to trade happy resources back and forth
oh right - I forgot that we are RB :D

me: BTW, did you get your Happy hooked up?
& which did you get?

Ruff.Hi: well - there is a story behind that
but you will have to wait until we can trade maps

me: Aha
Hidden in the corner is it?

Ruff.Hi: its nice and safe - yes

me: lol
I gather you're on the very Eastern edge

Ruff.Hi: yup
hey - next turn ... remember to pull the Calendar / CoL trade ...ok?

me: can't
no Sailing


Ruff.Hi: oh right - no blasted fishing / sailing

me: You need CoL right away?

Ruff.Hi: no - not even sure if I am negative gold at 100%
wasn't with 2 cities
might not be with my 3

me: Ah, Prophet-able....

Ruff.Hi: oh - any suggestions re Great Spy?

me: Not EP-bombing me....

Ruff.Hi: why?

me: I don't want you stealing my techs....

Ruff.Hi: not that I am planning on it - just want someone else's take on it

me: Plus if we're planning cooperation long-term, it'd be a waste.

Ruff.Hi: is stealing techs harmful?
it doesn't cost you anything

me: Trade value.
Never had a Great Spy myself

Ruff.Hi: warning: honesty coming up ...

me: Maybe use it for invisible recon for a while
<bracing self>

Ruff.Hi: I am thinking of bombing sooooo and I want to use you to gauge his reaction - you ok with that?
so - apart from the possibilty of me stealing techs ... any other downside?

me: diplomatic....

Ruff.Hi: such as ...
me knowing exactly what soooo is doing?

me: Yeah
it kind-of sets you up as an adversary
I would certainly feel that way if I was bombed

Ruff.Hi: ok - if you could look over someone's shoulder ... whose shoulder would you want tolook over ... from an 'improve your game' point of view

me: multiple city-revolts...
Me; sooooo's

Ruff.Hi: what if you had a 'no harmful spying' clause in your NAP?

me: Hmmmm, not sure how I'd take that.

Ruff.Hi: would you consider a EP bomb a breach of a no harmful spying clause?
oh oh - dinner time for me ... back later

me: I think it could be argued both ways

Ruff.Hi: sounds like I should discuss this with sooooo to see how he feels

me: maybe
Thing is that there's limited things you can do with a bart-load of EPs
Many of those are offensive in nature

[Dreylin]

t59 - Well, not much interesting going on on the home front this turn; couple of workers finish key builds - Daisy the third FP Cottage at Edirne, and Mike the chop/Mine at Istanbul. Some MM later and everything is on track as planned. The NE Chariot finishes exploration revealing the full extent of the dead-end, and Crabs. My first impressions of this area are that it will be very difficult to dotmap efficiently....



The main news today is foriegn, and will follow in subsequent posts when I have more time.

[Dreylin]

A couple of innocuous messages from athlete & sooooo:

I don't see that being a big problem.

In retrospect I decided to sent my phalanx back home. He has finished his mission of meeting athlete and ruff and will be of more use fighting my eskimo-barbs in the north. I'll be sending out a scout to replace him now you've cleared a barb-free path.

Good news about the Phalanx, and preservation of "my" Barb city.

[kalin]

I was wondering: how would a city 2S1W of the horses, on the forested grassland hill look like as a border in the west? It doesn't have food and will compete with athlete for a few useless tiles, but it will seal your border plus it's on a hill... Of course it may not be worth if it troubles the diplomacy.

K

[Dreylin]

Here's the big one from mh though:

Hi Dreylin,
that is indeed Vienna. And it will claim the pig tile.
From what my scouts revealed, I feel I got a bit shafted on the food resources/flood plain side.
Grasslands with water access are therefore highly valued for my civ.
Those areas are located south and east of my territory.
So yes, I was actually planning to settle at least one more city in that valley.
However, I will not go past that natural choke point in the mountains.

From what I see of the map there is a huge and fertile stretch of land to your north, that is a dead end and cannot be claimed by anyone else but you.
It has Horses, Sheep & Crabs as well as rivers and coastal tiles. I believe there is space for 3+ cities.

I understand the need to push the settling wave towards your opponents first and then settle the hinterlands later, but as I said my hinterlands look not remotely as good as your, so I will have to push further south and east.

I appreciate your mentioning of the issue and let me ensure you my reply has no sharp edges to it. Simply stating my intent.

Btw. My ETA for Currency is 2-3 turns. I am looking forward to trading it to you for CoL & Poly.

mh

Well this is going to require some consideration before replying. Clearly he is somewhat overstating the NE (there is no way to get fresh water into the main valley), and understating his area. Should he settle in that valley, it almost forces me to put a mostly worthless city in between Ankara and Clam/Sheep to ensure a route between the two.

I can divert the Settler which is already in the area to settle 1E of my original Purple Dot (1S of Horses) in 3t, and I have a second Settler already building, but I have to work out how long it will take to get that one into place at the Clams spot.

[Dreylin]

I think that site would compete too much with athlete's current location - is has the grasshill I mentioned to him in first-ring, and it will fight for both freshwater lake tiles. It also doesn't really seal off the access to Clam/Sheep or the Gap of Rohan. The best spot I can see is 1S of the Horses since there's no real way of getting an army past that spot without exposing it, and it covers both the East and South approaches.

[kalin]

I think that site would compete too much with athlete's current location - is has the grasshill I mentioned to him in first-ring, and it will fight for both freshwater lake tiles. It also doesn't really seal off the access to Clam/Sheep or the Gap of Rohan. The best spot I can see is 1S of the Horses since there's no real way of getting an army past that spot without exposing it, and it covers both the East and South approaches.

You are right I haven't realized you cannot move on those hills because of the mountain! So, I agree that that spot will be the best to block access. I am very curious to see how that will play with mh.

K

[zakalwe]

Looking at your screenshots from post #169 I can see why you wouldn't want a city in the Gap of Rohan. But do you think anyone else would want to settle there? Third ring culture from the seaside city would also be sufficient to close it off if you want the ability to close borders.

(But is closing borders really an effective measure anyway?)

[Dreylin]

It's not really about closing borders or a fear of anyone else settling there, but a case of minimising exposure to attack. If I don't settle anything else in that vicinity, it makes it a lot more difficult to defend the seaside city in case of attack. It would be a relatively simple job for an attacker to split that one city off from the rest of my empire, minimising reinforcements and being able to take their time conquering that city.

It's also a matter of then having to maintain a double(triple?) front in that area to defend the Stone city to the South as well.

I don't think I can afford to let mh have that location, and am going to need to divert the Settler currently heading for Orange Dot down into the valley to have it founded ASAP. What I need to check in more detail this evening is what that does to my settling date for Orange, and whether that risks losing the site to mh in the meantime.

[Dreylin]

Oh, I had a bit of a chat with Ruff this afternoon ... sad to say it got rather technical:

Ruff.Hi: Dreylin - you there?

me: Yep
(more or less)

Ruff.Hi: I have a 50beaker coupon from sooooo for an upcoming trade
can I sell this coupon to you for Priesthood?
I would have to discuss with sooooo to see if he is happy with me doing this too

me: Argh
You want me to contemplate logistics of this now!?
Not the best time.
But let's see if I get this straight:

I currently have a 40b IOU signed by yourself
You cureently have a 50b IOU signed by sooooo

Ruff.Hi: correction: you have a 50b IOU signed by me

me: you want to transfer the sooooo 50b IOU to me in return for Priesthood

Ruff.Hi: I will have a 50b IOU shortly (1 or 2 turns)
but yes - you have that right

me: Oh,I thought it was only 40b, but I'll not argue

Ruff.Hi: I'm keeping a running track on tech trades because I always forget what was agreed

me: I feel like a Wall-Street banker trading Paper....
:D
(not the Tech)

Ruff.Hi: CDOs ... collateralized debt options

me: Indeed
I should bundle them up and sell them on to mh


Ruff.Hi: will need to check with sooooo to see if this IOU is liquid (if you know what I mean)

me: Well, sooooo and I are square at the moment
but I have no objection in principle

Ruff.Hi: ok - will email sooooo about this

me: Unless you have any paper with athlete?

Ruff.Hi: I will shortly

me: lol
How much, and which way?

Ruff.Hi: 150b IOU from him to me

me: I need to get Sailing from him

Ruff.Hi: what are you trading him for sailing?

me: I offered him Mono
straight trade

Ruff.Hi: good deal for him
has he agreed?

me: well Religion is gone
I think so
as is Monarchy
with devaluation, etc.

Ruff.Hi: do you have monarchy?

me: Yep
from athlete

Ruff.Hi: actually - I am trying to pick up both Archery and Priesthood

me: I have both

Ruff.Hi: for trade?

me: self-researched

Ruff.Hi: would you accept an IOU signed by Athlete for their face value?

me: Argh!
I think I'll change my in-game name to Citigroup next turn

Ruff.Hi: I cannot believe that we are discussing this

me: Need a flow chart

Ruff.Hi: not sure that is a good idea - they are only worth 2c

me: btw, we are talking "normal" beaker values, right?
not Quick
(That's how I've been working since it's easier to find those values on cfc)

Ruff.Hi: beaker value from CFC - easier than looking up in game

me: Yep

Ruff.Hi: well - if you are ok with this, I'll pitch it to Athlete ... ok?

me: Let me think a sec

Ruff.Hi: np - take your time

me: You are offering me a 120b IOU signed by athlete in exchange for Priesthood & Archery

Ruff.Hi: yes
so ... after that trade went through, Athlete would owe you 120 beakers

me: and owe you 30b?

Ruff.Hi: yes
but I am not sure what I could do with a 30b IOU

me: (Was wondering that myself)

Ruff.Hi: well - maybe I collect a bunch of them and sell it to my local merchant beaker bank

me: part of the reason I'm not too bothered about Sailing-Mono straight up

Ruff.Hi: I might just waive the 30b and write it off as transaction costs
or you could take it as part of your commission

me: <sigh>

Ruff.Hi: because you aren't getting anything right now for this
yes - that is actually fairer

me: So you are offering a 150b athlete IOU in exchange for Priest & Archery

Ruff.Hi: yes
as long as Athlete agrees

me: I guess so then

Ruff.Hi: thx - I will email Athlete and pitch it to him

I was having this conversation while trying (and failing) to work out the logistics of the mh border, so my head was really not working properly!

At least once we get Currency, this should all go away again! (maybe)