Trying again. I think it's a couple turns behind, actually, so you'd have to follow my byzantine plan to get it up to date to turn 53. Also, not all my units are in the right places, and I think there's a few errors with gold/beakers, but I was going to try and iron that out later.
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[SPOILERS] Will the Sun(rise) Ever Set on Washington, Mongolia?
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December 16th, 2014, 15:58
(This post was last modified: December 16th, 2014, 16:00 by Ichabod.)
 (December 16th, 2014, 14:16)Whosit Wrote: 1. I don't have mysticism teched yet. Some thoughts in bold. I have to go now, I'll write a bit more later. Anyway, don't fret too much about all this, things are not looking bad or anything.
Are you working any tiles with rivers or coasts? You could just remove the rivers from your sandbox for a single turn and add them back the next turn. Easy as that.
So I tried a new plan going along the lines of some of what Ichabod was suggesting....
New PLAN! T53: Tech Fishing (100%); Swap Stanford/Wendy mines; Whip Wendy (Axeman); Spearman moves to defend; 2 Workers at (1,3) Split to (1,5) Road and (2,2) Farm. T54: Stanford (Settler > Granary); Wendy (Axeman > Worker); Soos work finished Sheep Pasture; Worker at (-1,-1) Move to (1,1); Settler Move to Wheat/Horse site. T55: Worker at (1,1) Chop to Stanford; Worker at (1,5) Move to (2,6) Road; Worker at (-1,3) Move to (1,3). T56: Fishing > Mysticism; Swap Soos to Work Boat; Worker at (2,6) FINISH ROAD; Settle City 4 (Dipper Pines: Granary); Worker at (1,3) Move to (2,2) Farm. T57: Worker at (2,6) Farm; Whip Wendy (Worker). T58: Mysticism > Writing (0%); Wendy (Worker > Monument); Stanford (Granary > Worker); Worker at (1,1) Move to (0,2) Cottage; New Worker at (-4,0) Move to (-3,0) Cottage; 2 Workers at (2,2) Move to (1,3) Farm (stop). T59: 2 Workers at (1,3) Move to (2,6) Farm (complete). T60: Research (100%); Worker at (2,6) Move to (0,5) Pasture; Worker at (2,6) Move to (0,5) Pasture; Worker at (2,6) Move to (2,7) Farm (stop). Demos: GNP 38, Prod 25, Food 46 T61: Stanford (Worker > Archer); Wendy and Stanford work new cottages; Soos works Horse Pasture; New Worker at (0,0) Move to (1,0) Cottage; Worker at (2,7) Move to (2,8) Pasture. T62: Swap tiles between Wendy/Stanford to finish Wendy's Monument this turn and keep all cottages worked; Worker at (-3,0) Move to (-3,1) Cottage; Worker at (0,2) Move to (0,4); 2 Workers at (0,5) Move to (2,7). T63: Wendy (Monument > Worker); Soos (Work Boat > Settler); Worker at (0,4) Chop to Soos; Worker at (2,7) Move to (2,8) Pasture; Worker at (0,4) Chop to Soos; Worker at (2,7) Move to (3,8). T64: Writing > Maths (0%); Stanford work new Cottage; Worker at (3,8) Chop to Dipper; 2 Workers at (2,8) Road. T65: Stanford (Archer > Chariot); 1 Worker at (2,8) Move to (2,9); 1 Workare at (2,8) Move to (2,7) Farm; Worker at (1,0) Move to (0,1) Cottage (stop). T66: Worker at (2,9) Road; Worker at (0,4) Move to (0,3) Farm; Worker at (0,1) Move to (0,3) Farm; Worker at (-3,1) Move to (-5,-1). T67: Worker at (2,8) Move to (1,7) Farm; Worker at (-5,-1) Chop to Wendy. T68: Research (100%); Dipper (Granary > Monument); Worker at (1,9) Move to (0,10); Worker at (0,3) Move to (1,2); Worker at (1,7) Move to (2,8) Cottage; Worker at (1,7) Move to (1,4). T69: Soos (Settler > Barracks); Wendy (Worker > Work Boat); Stanford (Chariot > Settler); Worker at (0,10) Road; Worker at (1,2) Mine; Worker at (0,3) Move to (-1,2); Worker at (0,4) Move to (0,3) Farm; New Worker at (-5,0) Move to (-5,1) Road; Worker at (2,8) Stop; Soos work Grass Farm. T70: Let Worker at (0,10) finish road; Move Settler; Worker at (2,8) Move to (0,10); Worker at (-5,-1) Move to (-5,0) Farm; Worker at (-4,1) Move to (-5,0) Farm; Worker at (-1,2) Chop; Swap Soos to Chariot; Whip Dipper (Monument). Units: 1 Settler, 7 Worker, 1 Archer, 1 Chariot, 7 Warrior, 1 Axeman, 1 Spearman Demographics: GNP 39, Prod 25, Food 58 4 Cities, 18 pop points Compare to previous plan: Demos: GNP 40, Prod 25, Food 67 5 Cities with 20 pop points I do not end up with as much as what I was previously doing, but that's probably less to do with the new direction and more with my execution. I didn't grow Soos as much, I grew Stanford much more (and so didn't produce a Settler there as quickly), though Wendy was coming along alright, I think? The new Dipper spot, with the wheat and horse, is kinda slow to get going. Anyway, not really sure which way I should be going right now, and I'll have to finish my turn early in the morning when I wake up. Hmm.... Also, I think that the Zulu just settled 2 cities this turn, based on civ stats... So they now have FIVE cities. I think I need to focus on getting more settlers out as quickly as possible. Does that mean I throw down fewer cottages? Don't build that Granary in the capital? Not really sure what to do in order to catch up.
New off the cuff:
Turn 70 Units: Worker 7, Archer 2, Chariot 1, Warrior 7, Axeman 1, Spearman 1 Demos: GNP 37, Prod 35, Food 61 5 Cities, 19 pop points VS Demos: GNP 40 (100%), Prod 25, Food 67 vs 40, 27, 68 5 Cities with 20 pop points. Sort of comparable. 5th city spot should probably be somewhere different, though. Wendy needs crab before Corn can be shared.... Going to T80 Units: Worker 8, Archer 3, Chariot 2, Warrior 7, Axeman 2, Spearman 1 Demos: GNP 48 (100%), Prod 32, Food 93 6 Cities with 28 pop points. VS Units: 1 Settler. 7 Workers, 4 Archers, 2 Chariots, 7 Warriors, 3 Axemen, 1 Spearman. Demos: GNP 45 (0%) or 60 (100%); Prod 38, Food 86 6 Cities, 29 population points. Similar end point. Some refinement could mean good increases in prod and food, but by turn 80 economy is looking pretty bad. We're breakeven around 30% and I was even getting two more settlers out! Of course, I didn't really jot down notes on what I was doing, so that kinda hurts iteration, but it does show I can head in this alternate direction and still make some good progress. I do recall that for the capital, I did not build the granary until it had finished another Worker and Settler. I think I still favor that over getting the granary there immediately. However, once I do get the granary in the capital, I grow it to its maximum size. Soos builds a few settlers, too, though I end up whipping it off of two of its mines each time, growing back and doing the same. Not sure if that's actually a good idea to 2pop whip a hammer city, but it does get those settlers out a bit quicker... Anyway, the turn timer is running out, and as much as I'd like to have an actual roadmap for what I'm doing here, I think I can safely finish this turn and just assume I'm going to settle city 4 at the wheat/horse site. Ah, and I'm going to tech Mysticism > Fishing. No reason to get fishing first. Ah, and Ichabod, I know about the 1/2 food box bit with the granary, but not the no-growth trick.
T53 Notes
Research to Fishing (100%); Whipped Wendy Axeman, Swapped Stanford to riverside mine, Swapped Soos to Archer, Moved Spearman to defend against barb, Split Workers to prep for new City 4 site. T54 Battle results: Spearman needs to heal for 3 turns, earned 1 XP, Warrior defended, heal 3 turns has total 3 XP.  Moved Spearman to defend cows, he was victorious.  Interesting, but probably just a DoW to scout territory. Seems incredibly unlikely to be a hot war right now, but it's possible it's an opportunistic Impi strike.  5 Cities to our 3....  We are not doing so well, but this is typical for me: High soldier count, crap in everything else.
A couple more things:
*I think you need to have 2 workers ready to improve the wheat for the 4th city as soon as it is settled. There's no point in improving the foodplain farm (you gain 1 food) before that wheat (you gain 3 food), so it's best to have 2 workers on the second, rather than split them. Here's your plan: T53: Tech Fishing (100%); Swap Stanford/Wendy mines; Whip Wendy (Axeman); Spearman moves to defend; 2 Workers at (1,3) Split to (1,5) Road and (2,2) Farm. T54: Stanford (Settler > Granary); Wendy (Axeman > Worker); Soos work finished Sheep Pasture; Worker at (-1,-1) Move to (1,1); Settler Move to Wheat/Horse site. T55: Worker at (1,1) Chop to Stanford; Worker at (1,5) Move to (2,6) Road; Worker at (-1,3) Move to (1,3). T56: Fishing > Mysticism; Swap Soos to Work Boat; Worker at (2,6) FINISH ROAD; Settle City 4 (Dipper Pines: Granary); Worker at (1,3) Move to (2,2) Farm. In a first glance, I'd try to have 2 workers to start improving the wheat tile on turn 56, the same turn the city is settled (probably the two you have roading right now - not sure if you need more roads to the north of Soos, perhaps you can use the spare worker turns to (partially) improve the horses). If you can get the third worker (from the sheep) on the wheat tile on turn 57, you can already finish the wheat farm on that turn, which is really good (right now, it's finishing on turn 59). *As a general rule, improve your resources first. Let's say, after improving the wheat, what do you do now? The horse tile in 4th city (the grassland one) seems a very good one to improve next. Horse pastures take 4 turns to improve, so you only need 2 workers there, because 3 workers won't speed the 2 turns you need to complete it. So, if you ended the wheat farm with 3 workers there, you can now separate them: 2 go for the horse, 1 go somewhere else. But, let's say it's turn 58, you can move the 3 workers on the wheat -> if you move them to the horse tile, they'll waste worker turns, because you could move them 1 tile and improve, then cancel the order. After that, on turn 59, you can move them to the horse and start improving. *Favour cottages more than mines, as a general improvement rule, when you have no resources to improve. Cottages are food neutral, mines cost food. So, while you have happy cap, it's better to grow on cottages, rather than on mines. That's important for cities with no more resource tiles to improve, like Capital and Wendy. --- So, as a general plan for the 3 workers near Soos, why don't you try (let's call the two workers that finished roading worker A and B, and the one on the sheep worker C): I made this only looking at the picture, please, double check if it really works) T53: Worker A and B move to horse tile (0, 5), pasture. Worker C, pasture sheep. T54: Worker A finishes pasture. Worker B moves to (1,5), road and cancel. Worker C finishes pasture. T55: Worker A moves to (1,5), finishes road. Worker B moves to (2,6), road, cancels. Worker C moves to (1,4). T56: City 4 settled. Worker A farms wheat. Worker B farms wheat. Worker C farms wheat. T57: Worker A and B finish wheat farm. Worker C finishes road. T58: Worker A and B move (2,7), cottage (could be a farm, but I think this city could cottage its riverside tiles), cancel. Worker C moves (1,3), farm (I guess a farm maes more sense here), cancels. T59: Worker A and B move to horse tile and pasture. Worker C moves to (2,2) and start farming that floodplain. This is not perfect by any means, but it seems decent. The most important thing is that you are improving the resource tiles on the new city as fast as possible. The horse pasture for Soos and the roads to the 4th city are not fundamental improvements by any means, but we are doing them so that the workers are in position when it matters. Turn 58 worker movements are all fillers. The workers can't reach the tiles we want them to reach with enough movement points to start improving, so we do one turn of a non-fundamental improvement to save worker turns. Trying to fit such improvements in a general plan is one thing that makes the good players good. --- Carefully consider every improvement you are about to build. If you are finishing a farm that a city will work only 5 turns after you finished it, you should ask yourself if your worker couldn't be doing something else for 5 turns, before working on the farm (which would still have it ready on time).
I think Soos is a good city to build workers. At size 4, working sheep, fp, horse and copper, it already has 12 hammers, which is 16 with EXP. That's 4t workers with overflow, which is pretty nice. No need to whip it that much (I'd recommend against whipping resource tiles that net you more than 5 yield, when you sum up the food and hammers). If you want to build a settler here, slow build it instead, I'd say.
Wendy seems a better city to whip settlers. You grow it on cottages, when it reaches max size/doesn't have more improved tiles to work, you start a settler. Whip it, grow again, reach max size, start a settler. Repeat. When Stanford is max size, you can give the cows tile to Wendy, if Wendy is still growing. That is, if you are not going to whip Stanford. When you can start growing with Stanford again, you take the cows back. By the way, don't fret too much about your opponents. There are some really good players giving advice in other threads and you got stuck with me.  As far as I can tell, you have been playing up until now without any mentor support, so things have been really unfair. And city number is not all that matters -> you chose CHA, which is a trait that is based more on vertical growth, so it's natural that you'll have fewer cities, but with higher pop. That doesn't mean we should slack on expansion, but it also doesn't make throwing a lot of cities fast a good thing.
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I can certainly change the placement of city 4 to the clam/wheat spot, though, and make the changes in Soos's production. The Floodplain was always going to be farmed, though. I don't think I said I was cottaging it.