Dave's Not Throwing Away His Shot

[oledavy]

Turn 77-78

The waning days of peace. Singaboy seems to have sensed the coming storm, however, as his military grew on t78. Then again, it was probably inevitable considering his neighbors combined outnumbered him 3 to 1. 

I don't know if I would rather Archduke join me in jumping in on Singaboy or go after Woden. Probably the former, as if Singaboy switches to total war mode, I will have difficulty conquering Seoul and holding it without switching back to military production, which I would prefer to avoid. 

For now though, let's look around at t77. 




First off, Singaboy settled his 5th city. Where I don't know. He also finished his first Hansa. 



It's noteworthy that it gets the +2 hammers even if one of the CH's is incomplete. Those things are terrifying. Even if I take Seoul, Singaboy will be a major threat for some time to come. Speaking of: 



Not unexpected. My battering ram completed on t78. It won't be next to the city walls until t82, however. 

I think it's safe to say that Singaboy and I are neck and neck at this point. I continue to lead him in techs and civics, but he is definitely ahead on his development curve. Moreover, with his military spiking, I'm feeling more and more justified in my decision to bring my horsemen back over here to defend/attack Seoul rather than going on a long distance trip to find Woden. 

Woden is a significant long-term threat, however. He's ahead on cities, has the wonder bonus, and he and I are neck and neck in science, him ahead in Culture per turn but me ahead on Civics due to Thermopylae. Hopefully his neighbor will serve as a counter-balance and end his peaceful farming spree. 



Alhambram instantly spread his religion to two more cities. I hope he took some of the militaristic beliefs. I still can't believe I can't see what beliefs people are taking 

Alhambram's ace in the hole is that he's approaching 600 gold. That's enough to upgrade 6 warriors into swords instantly. His military may not be very huge at the moment, but it has potential to become monstrous overnight. He has to know Woden is running away with things over there. Whether or not he will be able to effectively do anything about it, I don't know. Hopefully, however, he'll at least induce Woden to build some military for a time. 

I'm in the perennial conundrum of figuring out how to deal with a potential runaway, do I: 

1. Expand at home and work on my own infrastructure and development
2. Send military to bring him down

At the moment, the former seems better, considering my opportunities for militaristic expansion in Seoul, and the distance and difficult terrain between Woden and I. Long-term, however, if Archduke or Alhambram can't do anything about him, I will have to find some way to implement option 2 - hills and mountains be damned. 

I do need to get a scout over there to find his actual position rather than settle for: "There are hills and mountain ranges in the way"

I do think the path of domestic development and expansion will yield the best results for now, however, and I anticipate being at 8 cities for the big t100 at this rate. 



There seems to be a narrow coastal strip between me and Woden. I think I want to put a city on the marked tile, then get a trade route to it for a road. Hopefully I'll have room for one more city beyond it, at the outlet of the coastal strip. If I manage this, I will have a long, but traversable highway I can use to get forces into Woden's lands. Implementing this is still a ways away though. 

Also on t78. 



I don't see any reason why not. Propping up Alhambram is probably my best way to slowing down Woden right now. If having me as a friend gives him the added security he needs, then so be it. 



t78 was the first turn I was eligible for war with Singaboy. My forces weren't quite in position though, so the DoW will come next turn, on t79. 

Here is my final configuration: 



Not in picture: battering ram and western horsemen that will be joining the invasion force. That northern hoplite, having completed his fogbusting task, will also be heading south in a moment. I want him to keep that swordsman where it is, so I can encircle it next turn and prevent it from retreating. 

The only unit he should see is the horseman on the copper mine, which I hope he writes off as me going to protect my campus. That move was the biggest risk, the biggest chance of tipping my hand. However, hopefully he won't read too much into it. If he moves his swordsman west, he'll see my assembled forces. However, he then will have given up his full +6 fortify bonus, which I am happy with. 

So, next turn, my chariot (which is hidden to him now) reappears over the hill and exerts ZoC over his sword, so it can't retreat two spaces (and also gives me an additional flanking bonus. My unpromoted horseman attacks first, and eats a ton of damage due to the fortification and hill. Thankfully, he'll promote after the battle to heal immedietly. The second attack comes from my horseman on the copper. Next turn, my archer moves forward to shoot the sword as he retreats, and I chase him down with one of my horseman/my heavy chariot to finish him off. 

I spend turns 80-81 positioning around the city, fighting other German units, and pillaging, then on t82. I begin my attack on the city proper. Hopefully by t83 it's in my hands, and I can then fortify against any counter-attack. With any luck, a five turn conquest. 

Again though, this all takes place against the backdrop of this: 



More than his science and culture, that number concerns me. 

My teching path for the forseeable future: 



After Apprenticeship, I'm going to grab all the military techs and make sure my position is secure for the t105 dogpile on me - should it arrive. I want to have muskets by then. My GS should grant me the Eureka for Military Engineering, and I can bang out a Barracks and an Armory in Schuyler to make sure I get the Eureka for Gunpowder. With Hattusa, I will at least be able to upgrade my two swordsmen. Hopefully I'll have a couple of domestic sources of Niter in the Great Basin Desert. 

Anyway, so: Stirrrups -> Military Engineering -> Gunpowder. 

With a couple muskets and my city strengths all buffed accordingly, I should be set when the reprisal dogpile comes. The other thing to consider here is diverting to Castles to grab Alhambra. I already have a perfect tile in mind, and the amenities and extra military slot would be extremely good. I just don't know if they're 710 cogs good. 

Fun little strategic decision. 



I could have thrown down a campus in Lafayette to lock in the cost this turn between the two peaks. However, I want to work the tile for now, it's the only good hammer tile the city has at the moment...

So I put it off for now. Archduke grabbing that grassland tile precludes me creating a Feudalism triple farm where I wanted btw, so I will be editing the district layout of the city slightly, and putting the commercial hub northwest of the future campus and keeping the wheat. 

Final overview shot of t78: 



Things are looking really good for now. With any luck, the war I start next turn will be quick and decisive, adding another city at minimal cost without having to go into military production.

[Mardoc]

Archduke grabbing that grassland tile precludes me

Is there any cultural battles like Civ4, or is that tile now forever associated with Buenos Aires, or something weirder?

For that matter, what happens to culturally expanded tiles upon conquest? If someone were to capture Hamilton, would they get the tile with your campus on it?

[yuris125]

Once a city claims a tile, it's associated with that city forever. When a city is captured, all tiles associated with it immeidately change ownership to the captor

In Civ5 you could claim a tile owned by another civ by building a citadel (great general's special tile improvement) next to it. Not sure if there are non-conquest ways in 6

[Kaiser]

I am actually Not 100% sure on that. I seem to remember a SP game where I swapped tile usage in the city screen before gifting away a city. If I remember correctly the tiles I swapped to my city stayed with mine. However tiles with districts or wonders on them cannot be swapped

I will try that an confirm next week

[oledavy]

I am actually Not 100% sure on that. I seem to remember a SP game where I swapped tile usage in the city screen before gifting away a city. If I remember correctly the tiles I swapped to my city stayed with mine. However tiles with districts or wonders on them cannot be swapped

I will try that an confirm next week

I don't believe this is the case, but let me know if your test suggests otherwise! 

To my knowledge, the tiles acquired by a city either culturally or by purchasing, are permanently associated with it, and flip to whoever controls it. Districts are attached to the city that built it, and are owned by the owner of the city. 

At present, the only way to peacefully acquire tiles otherwise is through Poland's ability.

[oledavy]

Turn 79 - The Second Korean War

This turn I kicked off my second war of the game, my attempt to capture Seoul from Singaboy. I noticed in looking through my screenshots, shockingly few were about the war, but it does indicate to some extent how much of my headspace this war is occupying. It's a major undertaking, but remains a secondary priority compared to jump-starting my economy. 

Anyway, first off: 



Apprenticeship in - an extra 3 hammers per turn at the moment. I didn't know it was happening this turn, but my trade route from Schuyler to Hamilton terminated. I thought for awhile on where I wanted a road/yields next, and ultimately decided on Lafayette to Schuyler. 

The premise for this decision was I wanted my next trade route to run to Schuyler for 1/2/2 instead of 2/1/2 in Hamilton. Since most of my cities are population capped right now, the hammers are more useful than food. I want a triangle of roads eventually, connecting Lafayette, Schuyler and Hamilton. These three cities form the core of the defensive front, and account for a ton of my production. Establishing a road network between the three of them to move defenders around was needed sooner or later, and there's no time like the present. The new TR will start up next turn. 

Also, I got a message from Woden. 



Yeah, how about no. 

Apprenticeship did wonders for Schuyler's production: 



Only 8 turns on that commercial hub. 

In the north, I found the presumed tundra, and hopefully the barb camp that sent forth those horses sooner rather than later. 





Internationally, both Woden and Alhambram's militaries jumped by about 100 strength each over the last couple of turns. I'm guessing the peaceful building period over there is about to come to an end 

I hope Alhambram comes out on top, or at least doesn't lose ground. 



Woden almost certainly finished a Defensive Tactics, pulling one behind me in Civics. It's also notable that he jumped in culture production and pulled nearly even in scientific production (within .2 iirc). Hopefully, however, the combination of him fighting a war and me expanding will allow me to keep my lead. If not, I still have my GS to fall back upon. This all presumes the war with Singaboy doesn't require additional resources, however....

That being said, his military didn't grow this last turn. Maybe he's not doing a build up. 

Anyway, let's kick this thing off: 



Singaboy obligingly did not move the sword. Good, it's as good as dead now. It will take a lot to kill though. 



The first horseman dealt 22 damage and took 33 in return. 

The second dealt 27 and took 33. 

Moving forward revealed a double promoted archer to the southeast. I changed my order of advance and moved my third horseman to the southern flank to charge at it next turn in the event he moves forward and shoots. There is some risk to my southeastern horseman, but I will definitely kill the swordsman and probably the archer on the counter-attack, and losing units is the price you pay for attacking in this game. 

Anyway, here was the final configuration. 



The sword almost certainly can't promote. I imagine he stays fortified, or moves 1 east next turn. I'm hoping to finish it off with my archer and heavy chariot, promote my central horseman, and push on towards Seoul. I'm very curious what he does with the southern archer, and what he has around the city. I imagine at least one archer in the city-center. 

And I definitely will be pillaging that trade route sooner rather than later. I want to accumulate as much gold as possible over the next 26 turns, and war should help immensely to that end - both in pillaging and lost units. 

My empire at the end of the turn: 



I face a conundrum in the coming turns. Do I suzerain Carthage if I'm at war with Singaboy? I think yes, the +1 amenities will move me up to the next level of productivity in 3 cities, but this does break my policy of trying to keep the city-state secret from the world. 

I have one more complete turn to ponder this.

[Zero_1627]

Do I suzerain Carthage if I'm at war with Singaboy? I think yes, the +1 amenities will move me up to the next level of productivity in 3 cities, but this does break my policy of trying to keep the city-state secret from the world. 

Keeping its existence secret would be nice, but there's no point if You're not gaining the rewards...

keep secret: You get little, others don't notice.
Suzerain: You get quite a lot, others may try to do something about it - IF they invest quite a lot of effort... (they have to find it first, and second find required envoys - at the very minimum).

Also, You won't have all that much use for future envoys other than strengthen Your hold on Carthage... (Seoul will not regain independence I assume, and You can't really expect to hold suzerainship of Hattusa)

[oledavy]

Turn 80 - The Battle of Rhineland

Alright, let's see what's happening in the war. 



So, I hesitate at the risk of being haughty, as Singaboy could have forces in the fog ready to pounce on an error. However, I think the moves he made - the sword southeast and the archer northwest/fire - were the worst possible ones he could have done. I'll show my response, then go over what I would have done. 



Moved my archer up to fire, and the chariot into a flanking position. The key thing here was that I not do the final attack with the norhtwestern horseman, thus leaving it in Seoul's range to be killed. 

So, I attacked with the horseman first, then the archer to kill the sword. This meant giving up 5 XP on the horse, but he can still promote to heal next turn, and it was well worth killing the sword (and the 18 culture   )

This brings us to the archer: 



Once again, I attacked with the weaker horseman first, and finished with the stronger one so I was not leaving an easily killable unit on the front lines. That is a double promoted archer down, and 7 culture gained, at a very economical cost. 

All my moves in sum: 



That turn may have just won me Seoul. One horseman is out of the action for quite some time to heal, but the other yellow one can promote to heal. This gives me 3 horsemen, 1 sword, 1 Hoplite, 1 Heavy Chariot, and 2 Archers who can all keep moving towards Seoul next turn. 

Singaboy seems to not realize that time is on his side here. If I were him, I would have left the swordsman in place to keep it's fortify bonus, heal, control the road, and delay my march east. It was already as good as dead, so why try to escape when he could have delayed me an additional turn? The archer should have moved around Seoul. Once I commit to attacking the city, I need to go all in and be ready to take it, as he will be pelting me with city walls and a likely archer in the city each turn. With that in mind, another ranged unit around the city would be a major help - especially if it was on good terrain like that hill southeast of the city.

Moreover, playing for time gives Singaboy the turns he needs to churn out more military/redeploy to face me. 

I might end up looking very foolish if this was all a clever trap and he's entrenched around Seoul, but it seems very silly for the moment. He effectively let me destroy 20% of his military at minimal cost when it could easily have cost me 1-2 turns in taking Seoul if used more efficiently. 

All this said, I'm beginning to doubt my ability to win this war on my own: 



Frankfurt finished its Hansa, for 6 hpt. That industrial heartland is probably giving Aachen and Frankfurt close to 20 hammers per turn each. With maneuver, that's a horseman every ~3 turns from each   

I believe I should be able to take Seoul without too much difficulty, but long-term, he can certainly outproduce me unless I start putting major cogs into the conflict. My likely only way out here is Archduke entering the war - which should be extremely enticing to him since he sees I'm at war and still has an army/GG to leverage. Either way, I should know in the next 3-5 turns or so. If he doesn't declare in that time, he went after Woden, a move that helps me long term, but one that makes this war a lot more difficult for me. Still, Singaboy may try to get out of war as soon as possible given the threat a 2v1 poses. While he can lose Seoul and still be in an excellent position, he can't lose Frankfurt, the likely target of a Greek invasion. I would love nothing more than to take Seoul and sit back and watch the two of them in a battle to the death over that city. 

For now though, this is all hypothetical, and the most logical move to me may not be the most logical move to Archduke. Things look good for me short-term, but long-term, I may have to make some difficult choices on how far I want to go to potentially hold on to Seoul. 

In other news: 



I found a barb camp! Not sure if it's the one that sent the horsemen, but I will definitely set to clearing/farming it with my archer for the culture and gold. 



Woden jumped about 3 science. He must have completed a campus, I'll know for sure next turn from the GP screen. He continues to be a major threat, especially when you factor in his culture per turn. Thankfully, between a growth, and settling a city next turn that will immedietly work one of the 1/2/1/1 science Yosemite tiles, I will easily keep pace with him for now. 

However, I think war is imminent over there. Both he and Alhambram's militaries have doubled in size over the last few turns. I completely forgot to see if Alhambram's treasury is gone, come to think of it. 

Anyway, hopefully Alhambram slows him down a bit. Once I finish my expansion and upgrade my military around the t105 mark, I'll begin assessing if my odds of winning are better served by sending an army to fight Woden or building an army to try and conquer one of my neighbors. 

Last, but not least: 



Made a new trade route. 

The culture from kills put me to sub 1 turn of completing Feudalism, when you factor out the Inspiration. Next turn, I farm Lafayette's wheat for my sixth farm, and then I'll complete Feudalism. I switched to Recorded History for now to ensure no culture goes to waste. After that, it will be Mercenaries, Medieval Faires, and Exploration for Merchant Republic.

[oledavy]

Keeping its existence secret would be nice, but there's no point if You're not gaining the rewards...

keep secret: You get little, others don't notice.
Suzerain: You get quite a lot, others may try to do something about it - IF they  invest quite a lot of effort... (they have to find it first, and second find required envoys - at the very minimum).

Also, You won't have all that much use for future envoys other than strengthen Your hold on Carthage... (Seoul will not regain independence I assume, and You can't really expect to hold suzerainship of Hattusa)

I'm almost definitely going to suzerain them next turned. Singaboy will now know, but it is what it is, and someone was going to find out sooner or later. 

On an unrelated note: 

Thermopylae Culture Update: 183 

[yuris125]

good luck! All caught up now, following closely