[Spoilers] Old Human Tourist: Empress of Azteca

[Fintourist]

33 players makes 11 islands of 3...

Or maybe there are a lot more players west of Brickdocs.. 3 baguettes of 11 players..

Well.. You're guess is probably more accurate, but that sounds actually pretty bad for Azza so maybe there is still something that we don't know..

[Fintourist]

Turn 47

Played the turn apart from that one worker move, which still waits for micro comments from OH




Scout move preferences?




Eastern scout found out that Azza can pair his copper city with grass cows and that our potential stone city has crabs.

Azza power update, did he get AH? or build a warrior?




And Azza still has 44/44 EPs with Brickdocs, which means that either he tries to get graphs from Commodore or he has met 3 civs, maybe there's someone N/NW of him?

[TheHumanHydra]

Why is this thread on the second page?

[Old Harry]

Sorry!!!!! I meant to say: We had a chat about micro and decided that we should use the plan written by the less sleep-deprived one of us... More workers are a bit more useful than more pop!

[Fintourist]

Turn 48

Sorry, it's my fault! I've been working/studying until 3-4 am now four consecutive nights! But now, finally it's weekend!

Anyways, this is the same reason why I've played turns according to my micro baseline. Some of OH's micro decisions were very competitive, but I simply had not time to do further comparisons so I went with something I was more comfortable with. At least until now.. The next 2 days look so much better when it comes to free time!

Anyways: Screenshot of the turn, Azza settled for copper+cows.

[Old Harry]

Thinking about future cities again:


In your sandbox you settled 1b, which gets the fish just as soon as it pops borders, but the first culture building we want there is perhaps a library (or a monument?) so that's a way in the future. I prefer 1a partly for the cow sharing, bur more because it lets us cram more cities in on the coast, which is pretty good for a FIN civ (we can grow on the coast without much worker support while 2/0/3 is a good tile and later in the game recruit specialists in these cites.)

In the west the choice between 2 and 3 is tricky - 2 gets us the coastal corn city and is perhaps a stepping stone to marble island, but it's not on a hill and doesn't get a decent food tile without a border pop (barracks?) Meanwhile 3 has two food and is on a hill, but takes an extra turn to settle. 2a is only an option if we get 3 - sharing the pig and making border logistics easier. Of course Azza has a say in which we get as well, and you're right that it could piss him off.

If we decide that settling up on Azza is a bad idea or we get beaten then I think 4 and 5 are our next pair of cities. 4 doesn't get any new food resources, but it can quickly grow on the floodplain and pig (while the capital builds a settler) and then work five cottages for the capital. We're a little slow on cottage development, so the sooner that can happen the better. 5 gets us stone and pens Azza in. I'm sure it'll have other things going for it too, but I don't know what they are just yet.

Once we've settled city 5 then we can build Moai in M, although with stone only giving us 50% extra on the build the three forests only yield 135 hammers (after borders pop), so it's going to take ages and we shouldn't be prioritising it too hard.

So in a world without Azza I'd settle
- 3 then 2a then 5 then 4 then 1a
Given that Azza exists and we don't want to spend much on military just yet it might be safer to go:
- 1a then 3 then 5 then 4 then 2a
Note I think 4 should be approx our 9th city because we'll have enough cottages to justify it by then. Also if we have any island possibilities they probably fit somewhere in this list.

Hope the work isn't getting you down perhaps I'm not the more sleep-deprived one after all!

[Fintourist]

Turn 49

Turn played, no pictures this time, T50 report will be more comprehensive! Main news:
- We spotted a wounded lion near Brickdocs borders, maybe that has eaten Azza's scout? Or brickdocs have lost 2 units to animals?
- Azza now has copper connected - staring at power graphs every turn will be very important (3 more turns and we can see his research if he keeps putting his EPs elsewhere)
- Our scouting has been awesome (apart from our hut luck), we really have a good vision of almost all the relevant areas near us and vision of all three of Azza's cities (I'm actually rooting for trying to get his city visibility via EPs ASAP).

Hope the work isn't getting you down perhaps I'm not the more sleep-deprived one after all!

Ha! No worries, it's all fine again!

Thinking about future cities again:

1. You have been so eager for pushing that plains hill plant near Azza that I give up my role as a voice of reason! Let's just go for it, it's equally aggressive as if Azza had settled Cornelius and our defenses will be questionable. But hey, let's gamble and hope we can get away with it. I'll sandbox this during the weekend and try to come up with a decent way to get that city up.

2. We are probably not going to get 2/2a if we don't prioritize it quickly after 3, maybe not even if we try, but let's see how things develop first.

3. Yeah, I think 1a, 6, 4 & 7a is a fine way to settle our east coast. My 3-city version has been 1b, N of plains cows and 7a. Getting that fish later online is causing me some pain, but having more coastal tiles, ability to share B's cows and some cottage growing support from 4 is a tangible benefit as well. --> I'm fine with both options.

4. I think we need to prioritize 7 more than in your settling orders. That site is very close to Cheater Hater's capital and next turn he will get vision of those plains sheep. So what he will be seeing is an attractive island city that can get 2x crabs and sheep in the first ring. I think I would like to settle site 7 at ~T70 (city no. #7 or #8) and hopefully park an archer or metal unit on that tile already a bit earlier in order to signal that we are here and Cheater Hater is not welcome.

5. I don't see 5 as such a priority city or are you dreaming of Mids or GLH? I think re Moai we still have some time to spare. Azza has his own stone further in the west so I can't see him beelining that site either. I would actually like to settle that city S of stone as it would get us first-ring crabs and also allow us to lighthouse a 1-tile lake. Maybe city no. 8-10 goes there?

So I think our settling could go something like this:
~T60: 1a & 3
~T70: 2/M & 7a
~T80-85: 5, 4/6, 2/M if still available, otherwise both 4&6 or something in the south.

I haven't sandboxed far enough, but if we can maintain peace with Azza getting 10 sensible cities up before T90 is probably a decent and achievable tempo.

[TheHumanHydra]

Let's hope Azza doesn't become our suttree, then. Also you'll hook copper before doing that, right?

[Fintourist]

Let's hope Azza doesn't become our suttree, then.

Also you'll hook copper before doing that, right?

IIRC, we have copper mined and roaded T54 or T55, but it can be finished earlier e.g. if Azza would show up with axes (should be pretty much impossible)

[Old Harry]

Hmm, I'm not really as sold on 3 as I seem to have made out, I just prefer it to 2 if we are settling up on Azza. We've got plenty of other (slightly inferior) sites we could settle instead. It looks like there are islands to the south so we could expand there for the trade routes and bee-line currency...

Suttree is a good call here THH, is settling up on Azza going to make him give up the game and turtle? We want him to fold when (if) we attack, if we let him settle the city does he concentrate on infrastructure, if we poach the site perhaps he'll focus on units instead? If we do claim it we can hit his copper city pretty fast and perhaps prevent a reaction. Probably important to find out if he has any other metal lying around.

Azza is on four cities already, so he hasn't screwed up his start. He has metal, so we're going to need Catapults, Knights or an overwhelming force to make headway, what about going back to our original plan, boating Cheater Hater's capital? Might even be intercontinental trade routes in it for us...

Anyway in more useful thoughts can you bring the western scout up Azza's border to see if he's got a coastal city yet or any other Copper available? Cheers!