WW16: The Outlaws and The Olives

[Selrahc]

You defend by saying your flip will reveal nothing? Why do I get the impression that that is intentional?

I'm not really defending as such. Someone asked a question, I answered it. Disagree with my summary?

I'm definitely saying that my play right up until I got the internet is not going to reveal much, because it's someone who is barely in the game at all. And I haven't even really been playing a full day phase yet. Of course info is not going to be as readily available. It's.. basically just an obvious conclusion. It's really really difficult to keep up with this game on phone, and I wasn't able to do so. I am playing now, so any "Intentional information hiding" is going to go up in smoke, surely? Unless you just kill me now for the fact that I wasn't able to play earlier.

If people want to kill me, I'll mainly be annoyed at me. I've created a profile here that is very easy to mislynch. But I'm really not lying, and I really don't think lynching me helps anyone find things out much.

Who are your top villagers and top scum atm.?

Village: TT, Injera, Novice
Leaning Village: Lewwyn, Catwalk
Limbo: Gaspar, Rowain, Waterbat, Meiz, Ichabod, JKaen, Molach
Leaning wolf: Tasunke, Pindicator, Azza

[Selrahc]

What I guess I'd say in my defence:
I think the only thing that really could come out of my lynch and help the village is the death of a wolf. If you have a solid scumread on me, then I guess I can understand your votes even if you're wrong.

If you're lynching me for information purposes though? I think that is basically objectively wrong as a rationale, as I am surely one of the worst choices in the game to lynch in terms of information revealed by death.

[Meiz]

1) novice: the Secretary
2) Injera: the Electrician
3) Meiz: the Firefighter
6) Rowain: the Town drunk
7) Molach: the Street musician
8) Azza: the Mechanic
9) Waterbat: the Clergy
10) Pindicator: the Lawyer
14) Ichabod: the Pizza Delivery Boy
17) tasunke: the Librarian
19) Lewwyn: the Garbage collector
21) Catwalk: the Bureaucrat
22) Gaspar: the Carpenter
23) Jkaen: the Olive Picker
25) Selrahc: the Knife smith
26) Twinkletoes89: the Barber

Dead people:
18) thestick: the Mailman - Mafia - Lynched Day 1
4) zakalwe: the Farmer - Village - Killed night 1
16) Sareln: the Psychiatrist - Village - Lynched Day 2
12) Serdoa: the Chef - Village - Killed night 2
13) Bigger: the Milkman - Village - Suicided night 2
11) Merovech: the Bartender - Village - Lynched day 3
20) uberfish: the Barrel-maker - Village - Killed night 3
24) Mattimeo: the Wine connoisseur - Mafia - Lynched Day 4
15) Arromir: the Newspaper Editor- Village - Modkilled Day 4
5) Qgqqqqq: the Student

DAY ONE

thestick - 9 - zakalwe, novice, Bigger, tasunke, Mattimeo, Arromir, Serdoa, Twinkletoes89, Molach
Bigger - 8 - Rowain, Lewwyn, Injera, Jkaen, Sareln, Merovech, uberfish, Catwalk
Injera - 2 - Gaspar, Waterbat
Waterbat - 1 - Azza
uberfish - 1 - Qgqqqqq
Gaspar - 1 - Selrahc
Jkaen - 1 - Meiz
Merovech - 1 - Pindicator

Players not voting: Ichabod, thestick

DAY TWO

Sareln - 8 - Mattimeo, Arromir, tasunke, Merovech, Molach, Pindicator, Twinkletoes89, Serdoa
Pindicator - 7 - Rowain, Sareln, Ichabod, uberfish, novice, Meiz, Catwalk
Ichabod - 5 - Lewwyn, Injera, Gaspar, Qgqqqqq, Jkaen
uberfish - 3 - Azza, Bigger, Waterbat
Qgqqqqq - 1 - Selrahc

DAY THREE

Merovech - 9 - uberfish, Catwalk, Waterbat, Mattimeo, novice, Meiz, Rowain, Gaspar, Azza
Catwalk - 7 - Lewwyn, Pindicator, Qgqqqqq, Twinkletoes89, Ichabod, Merovech, Injera
Rowain - 1 - tasunke
Selrahc - 1 - Jkaen

Players not voting: Arromir, Molach, Selrahc

DAY FOUR

Mattimeo - 8 - novice, Waterbat, Catwalk, Meiz, Ichabod, Rowain, Twinkletoes89, Molach
Qgqqqqq - 5 - Selrahc, tasunke, Gaspar, Jkaen, Mattimeo
Injera - 2 - Qgqqqqq, Pindicator
Catwalk - 2 - Injera, Azza
Selrahc - 1 - Lewwyn

Arromir was mod-killed for inactivity.

Not voting thestick & not voting Matt: Selrahc, Gaspar, Jkaen, Pindicator, Injera, Azza, Lewwyn

Out of these, voting for the #2 contender while wolf was on block: Jkaen, Lewwyn, Injera, Selrahc, Gaspar
Jkaen on both occasions...
I do think Injera is village though, based on thestick claim and little bit of meta (Watcher + follower in wolf team? Basically both would have the same wolf-function of finding villager PR's, just with different methods)

I think the vote analysis alone shows how it seems like Selrahc tries to leave as small trail as possible. And I think it's by purpose. I see people keep repeating how we shouldn't lynch him because of this. I think that's exactly why we should lynch him... + Of course that he has avoided both wolf trains. It's really strange in Matt's case, because he had expressed doubt on Matt's claim but still voted Qgqq. I think that's quite important clue.
@Catwalk, what is the difference for lynching Azza. I think the trail is as small as with Selrahc. Looking at the voting habits above, I have to admit Azza is quite good candidate. But from information point of view, I think they are quite the same.

The "problem" with Pind is that evidence against him has so many different moving parts to make it work (not sure if it's clear what I mean here... ). In the end, he did vote both thestick and Matt, Occam's razor?

What if we have both Azza&Selrahc as wolves, hence causing the situation of two wolves on top at day 1. And if Jkaen would be a wolf as well, we'd already have 5 players who are not that good at influencing the votes and most of the pushes were done by villagers. I mean everyone always expects clever wolf tactics, busses for alibies and devilish schemes. But ultimately it depends on the wolf team, and the roles were assigned randomly. I guess I'm suggesting the total opposite of Gaspar's theories.

[Catwalk]

I agree completely that Azza would give us very little information, whether he flips wolf or villager. I find the evidence compelling though, and I find it far more compelling on Azza then on Selrahc. As you say about Selrahc, I think Azza is deliberately trying to leave as little trail as possible. If Selrahc reads this way too, I wouldn't be opposed to lynching him. However, Selrahc has given a reason for his inactivity and promises to be active. Azza has said he's going to keep lurking, doesn't find it anti-town and doesn't admit to actually lurking in the first place.

I agree that a vote on pindicator or Ichabod is much better for information, I could vote for either of those. A vote on Tasunke probably won't give much information, even if I find him highly suspicious.

[Azza]

I agree completely that Azza would give us very little information, whether he flips wolf or villager. I find the evidence compelling though, and I find it far more compelling on Azza then on Selrahc. As you say about Selrahc, I think Azza is deliberately trying to leave as little trail as possible. If Selrahc reads this way too, I wouldn't be opposed to lynching him. However, Selrahc has given a reason for his inactivity and promises to be active. Azza has said he's going to keep lurking, doesn't find it anti-town and doesn't admit to actually lurking in the first place.

Awesome. You're going to mislynch me, and learn absolutely nothing. That's just great.

[Catwalk]

One wolf less is one wolf less, no matter how much we learn. You respond very selectively to accusations against you.

[Twinkletoes89]

Lets leave the Azza/Selrahc lynch ideas for now, we need more info.

As such, I think we may well have to go for Pindicator now.

The posts in the last day or so of constantly stating things that he has done or thought, then checking the thread and having to take back what he has said seems like he might be 'trying too hard'. After I quoted that early helpful post to defend him, he seems to be doing a lot more of it which, to me, just makes me think he's trying too much.

I can understand why a desperate villager would try it, but it seems too much for me. I wouldn't be totally shocked if he turned up innocent, but he is in too much limbo for me and his death could give us greater clarity on what is going on.

Sorry man, in the last game I could see you clearly as a desperate villager right at the end. This time it just feels different

[Azza]

One wolf less is one wolf less, no matter how much we learn. You respond very selectively to accusations against you.

I'm sorry I don't dedicate my life to being online to respond to your fabricated accusations against me.

[Azza]

Sorry, that was more snarky than I intended it to be. No offense intended, I'm just frustrated because I feel like my inexperience is going to get me killed, and I think this is a critical day phase to get right. Miss this and the mafia have a heap of momentum, get this and the mafia could be under serious pressure.

[novice]

I think it has to be Rowain or Tasunke for me today. Rowain is the high risk, high reward lynch, Tasunke is the safer bet. Tasunke's files are suspicious, and his style is so incoherent that it would camouflage any scum tells.

Tasunke, for now.