WW11 - Civilization

[Mardoc]

That's all fair. Why exactly does Tasunke seem suspicious to you though? Again, I very strong believe a newbie who drew wolf would post as little as possible to "ease" themselves in. In other words, they'd follow the slowcheetah blueprint and not the Tasunke blueprint.

I see your point, somewhat, I just don't think it's a hard rule. There's bound to be exceptions. And I don't think Tasunke has it in him to sit on his hands when he could be playing.

What's suspicious about Tasunke? I guess it is hard to point to specifics, but I'll try to explain myself.

Freshest in my mind, he voted Cyneheard, then asked for MJW's case to back it up. Why would anyone do that? Either explain yourself when you vote, or not, but if you're looking for everyone else's arguments, that should come before you vote. Unless your goal is to justify yourself, rather than find the truth.

He's gotten more suspicious of Lewwyn at a time when I've been starting to trust Lewwyn. Which feels more like a wolf, picking a target from a list of known innocents.

A bit of circular reasoning: you wouldn't have jumped to protect him so fast if you weren't both wolves. My initial vote was meant to be simply early pressure, to see how he reacted, and then pick a real target later on. But you defused that super quickly, before he had a chance to react. Interestingly, he picked you as his first joke target, too, which feels like a wolf maneuver.

He seems to be jumping onto bandwagons, too. Not leaving his vote in one spot long enough to do any good, or even long enough that I believe it was arguments that changed his mind.

Finally - a number of other people are getting ever so slightly cleared in my mind, while he's not.

So...bulletproof? Nope . Better than my case against anyone else? Sure.

[zakalwe]

Mardoc, Ichabod, Tasunke

It's my special brand of BS scumhunting... parallel prosecution.

I eased up on the role-play because I felt it was holding me back a little. Better to drop completely out of character while prosecuting, and just mix in some role play if or when it feels appropriate.

Anyway... nice to see some reasoning from Mardoc rather than his previous self-depreciation overload.

I guess I'll go for Tasunke, then (a.k.a. Juvenile Skunk). The Lewwyn vote in post 140 is peculiar.

[Cyneheard]

He means that with the way you've been playing so far today, it would be strange if none of the scum took the bait and voted for you (if you are innocent).

Speaking of scum taking the bait: Tasunke

And I think considering that several people (Scooter, Novice, Catwalk) have been able to explain what I've been saying/trying to say to people less familiar with my style, the bait wasn't a safe one. Which would fit with Tasunke taking the bait, but the other wolves realizing that I wasn't such an easy target.

Especially when Tasunke decides to ask for a justification...against the person he just gave a one-word vote against. That IS insane; it felt to me that Tasunke was unsure of why there should be a case against me, but voted for me FIRST to make the wagon happen and get the extra vote against me, and then realized that he should see what the argument against me is to see if they had a shot of hanging me. As much as I don't want to hang a Day 1 newbie, the one-word votes period, and his response to the mini-wagon against me, is really bizarre.

[Tasunke]

Your voting for me is only to be expected.

Perhaps now your 'W'allies will feel safer in voting for me as well.

[Ichabod]

Ok I keep seeing people say that my MJW thing was pre-planned which is not really true, so I think I should clarify in order:

1) I had no plans going into this game other than I was going to be a bit more relaxed and less chatty. I halfway assumed I'd be werewolf because I always seem to roll werewolf.
2) I got my villager PM and went "oh cool, this'll be fun - wanted to try this again" so I checked the thread from my phone. It still had the "don't post" message so whatever
3) Got back to my computer, saw the message was gone and nobody posted, so I threw down the obligatory Uberfish joke vote since he's ALWAYS werewolf.
4) And NOW I started thinking about strategy for the first time. I figured Day1 is such a stab-in-the-dark joke, I figured it'd be wise to try to get reads on some of the more difficult players. I noticed MJW was in the game, so I slapped my vote down on him and hoped I could get an early read on him. I did - he seemed to me to be an innocent lean, though I'm not 100% convinced yet (others look safer than he does), but convinced enough that I probably won't vote for him today.

I'd argue it was helpful for the village too. Instead of half the day being joke votes and goofy role-play, we actually got real conversation started. You are all welcome by the way . Random comments aimed at or about certain people:

Cyneheard - Why do you keep reminding us how you've been "such a terrible villager" in the past? Starting to feel like a convenient wolf excuse to be not as helpful. Though the insisting we move on from MJW rather than continue being distracted struck me as a pro-village move.

Lewwyn - Reading all his posts in retrospect... I still believe his rage looked a bit forced, but everything since then lined up with how I'd think a villager Lewwyn would act. Like Cyneheard, I've got mixed feelings here.

Ichabod - feels very innocent to me. There seems to be some notable effort to actually find wolves rather than the time I played wolf with him and it was long-winded posts that didn't say much and were always "calculated" - accusing safe people only.

Slowcheetah - Thread says he's posted in here somewhere but I nearly forgot he was playing. Again, I don't like lynching newbies on day1, but if I was a wolf with a newbie on my team I'd be instructing him to stay really quiet day1 and gradually ease himself in because rarely does a village do anything better than jump at shadows on day1.

Zakalwe - Your messages are getting to the point here they're almost as difficult to parse as MJW's. I could care less about post count, but I'm really surprised you haven't had more thoughts so far. Your posts have just been goofy role-play and low-content which is not typical villager Zak.

Tokugawa / Scooter.
The Ichabod I remember misses nothing. And the "I have to take a look" phrase reminds me of wolf Ichabod in WW7.

Unvote, vote Ichabod.

What a nothing day. I'll as ever have to wait for zakalwe to get curious about novice to find anything out about him at which point Meiz and Rowain will get interested in the conversation. You Euro's play the same damn game everytime. :P

On that note, Ichabod feels a little WW7-ish to me.

He means that with the way you've been playing so far today, it would be strange if none of the scum took the bait and voted for you (if you are innocent).

Scooter, do you still feel that Ichabod is likely innocent?

Personally, I agree with Gaspar that Ichabod seems a little WW7-ish; what struck me was the extremely meticulous, elaborate argument he put forth just to explain why he had voted for Lewwyn and subsequently chose to unvote. In WW7 he was also extremely thorough, leaving essentially no openings for anyone to attack him. So maybe a little too "solid" reasoning there,

Well, people seem to differ about the way I play as a wolf based on what's written here. I didn't make a single post between all this comments and yet they are all pretty different.

Anyway, what I find most strange is that scooter said I looked innocent, when I hadn't posted much at all. I can't understand why would you say that this early, with so much conviction. There's no point about doing it.

His early posts felt much more innocent than his posts after the Lewwyn-gone-nuclear posts. By more innocent I mean they felt very different from WW7 Ichabod, as opposed to the later ones that seemed more in line with what I remember him posting during WW7. So I'm on the fence. There's probably 4-5 people who seem more innocent than him for sure. My problem right now is several people seem to be showing signs of innocence, but no one really seems to be showing strong signs of guilt. Wish we had a running voting history (anyone wanna volunteer to put that together?), because I think that'd be somewhat useful.

And this post from scooter came after the votes I received. But I hadn't post anything new between those posts. So it's a relevant change of mind. Why did you say I looked innocent, scooter, if you weren't sure? Apart from your declaration of my innocence and this change of mind, I don't think you are playing in a suspicious way. Maybe the subsequent post by the other made you look back at my posts.

Now that I think of it, from what I know from you as a wolf, you'd have been more agressive defending your opinion, rather than changing your mind based on what others said. Well, it seems now I think you look more innocent...


Anyway, I don't feel anything strong about the top candidates here (Cyneheard, Tasunke and Mardoc), so I'll vote for Jkaen.

[Ichabod]

By the way, Gaspar, I know that I played different in my two last games. I played in a way more free style, being more agressive than usual and seeming to lack a more serious involvement in the game. I roleplayed Alex and Valin Phanuel, which led to the above style. I remember you saying in those games that I am a too responsible person to play like that as a wolf, since I'd never put the chances of the wolf team winning in risk just so I could play that way.

To be truthful, that was the best argument regarding my innocence that I've ever read in these games. It was spot on.

So I decided to take advantage of it if I rolled a wolf in this game. I decided I would start with some roleplay of João as a coward and sneaky ruler (a suspicious behaviour) and later I'd drop that out (since another of my obvious characteristics is that I lose enthusiasm quick in a lot of my ambitious projects). That'd have been the perfect cover.

But since I rolled a villager, I decided just to play normal. I'm not in the mood to do roleplays, because they take a lot of time as a non-native speaker. I'm just playing the best I can.

[scooter]

And this post from scooter came after the votes I received. But I hadn't post anything new between those posts. So it's a relevant change of mind. Why did you say I looked innocent, scooter, if you weren't sure? Apart from your declaration of my innocence and this change of mind, I don't think you are playing in a suspicious way. Maybe the subsequent post by the other made you look back at my posts.

Honestly, I don't really have a good explanation. Generally speaking, the tone in these two early posts:

http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...post223809
http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...post223734

Is a pretty different tone from what I remembered in WW7... Where these two posts:

http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=166
http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=203

Reminded me of times in WW7 where you'd drop these long and very meticulous posts that we'd all laugh about in the email thread because it was impressive you could pull that off so convingly. Still though, now that you call me on it it's not a huge difference and yeah, I'm probably being affected by a bias in perspective - if you're looking for suspicion or looking for innocence you'll generally find it.

[scooter]

Alright I have no real strong suspicions, so I'm going to go game theory and say that if you're voting on essentially a dice roll, roll it in a way that minimizes risk. Jkaen has contributed practically zero thus far. I think the odds of him being a WW is about the same as most of the "suspects," but the downside of missing on him is lower than the rest because he hasn't been a key contributor. In contrast, rolling the dice on some of the more active players is a bigger loss if they happen to be village.

[Mardoc]

There's a chance I might actually get my preferred target?
[strike]scooter[/strike]

Tasunke

Same reasoning as before.

[Tasunke]

Mardoc ... you wound me.

Nah not really, pretty sure your a wolf, so you voting on me is likely nothing personal. We still cool