[SPOILERS] Team BASTARD settles on deer.

[Azza]

Been tuned out of this game for a while, sorry things went sideways. I was rooting for you from the t0 calculations of guaranteed Buddhism... in a 33 player field! I know its not GG yet, but you've done good so far. Taking tjat crazy northern city TWICE was well done.

Thanks for this .

The northern city wasn't actually super-crazy - if Azza had brought along a garrison and a connecting city, it was close enough to the 'fair' line that I'd have let it go. It was merely the start of his aggressive moves. Which...I'm not going to document, it's too depressing.

I didn't blame you at all for taking that city in the first place, I knew I should've got a spearman in there but delayed it and paid the price. I was incredibly annoyed by it, but deep down I knew that rage was directed at me.

Sadly, I think I even understand what Azza's trying to do. He's trying to make an RB metagame of 'let the wookiee win'. Or more specifically - trying to make it so that he can actually plant undefended cities on his opponents' borders and get away with it, because everyone's too scared of his grudges to call him on aggressive moves like that. The trouble is...

...The rest of us have reputations to protect, too.

I can't afford to be seen as a pushover, not even if it means spending months locked in an axe/cat level war. Which is why I don't plan to play any more games with Azza. It's not fun, playing for the mere sake of my reputation. But it appears playing for reputation is his default mode.

Not exactly. There was a small element of "you fucked me, so I'll fuck you", but I didn't exactly have a lot of options. Purely from a pragmatic point of view, the best obtainable land was our border. Fintourist and OldHarry had expanded quicker and cramped me to the east, so west was the easier target for expansion. My economy was nowhere near good enough to take them on, so I had to kill you to survive them. If I did nothing, eventually I get overrun 2v1 by you and them. Better to go down swinging. I hope in the aftermath of it all you wouldn't refuse to play a game I was in ever again, because I don't exactly like the idea of being considered someone who ruins a game when from my perspective I'm just trying to maximise the chances of success given my underwhelming civ skills.

I cant remember if it was 8 or 13, but there was a pretty good discussion of Azzaan psychology in the lurker thread. The conclusion was that he actually doesnt seem to understand that free will and initiative go both ways. He really seems to think that he deserves to have people reacting to his plans only, and gets mad when they take initiative. Which they often do because even after at least five attempts, he still hasnt learned to defend his obnoxious reach cities.

Also his ai_grudge score is 20: he tilts at first blood, and stays tilted basically forever.

The only Pitboss game I've gone full grudge mode is PB 11 where wetbandit archer rushed me. PB8 the geography dictated that I focused on Bigger/Lewwyn, and PB13 I just tried to survive as long as I could. Arguably PB9 too, but I'd tried to recover through peaceful expansion before trying to get my revenge.

My posts that I assume you're interpreting that way are generally frustration with myself for not identifying the threat. Obviously part of it is my own inadequacies, but there's also the factor of better players have a reputation that makes it less likely someone will try to snipe their aggressive cities. Either way, I'm no chance of winning from very early on in most Pitboss games I've played, so the focus goes from winning to survival. I don't think your assessment of my mindset is far at all.

[Mardoc]

Not exactly. There was a small element of "you fucked me, so I'll fuck you", but I didn't exactly have a lot of options. Purely from a pragmatic point of view, the best obtainable land was our border.

Dental Plan was junk. The northern city was good land, but you orphaned a lot of the good seafood to claim it.

I hope in the aftermath of it all you wouldn't refuse to play a game I was in ever again, because I don't exactly like the idea of being considered someone who ruins a game when from my perspective I'm just trying to maximise the chances of success given my underwhelming civ skills.

You made your bed when you built and garrisoned Dental Plan. Had you not done that, you could have had more good sites to the south, you could have defended against FinHarry, you could even have avoided further war with me. But then you didn't want to avoid war with me, you decided I had to die and FinHarry could have your stuff whenever they wanted.

No, I will not play with you again.

[Azza]

Not exactly. There was a small element of "you fucked me, so I'll fuck you", but I didn't exactly have a lot of options. Purely from a pragmatic point of view, the best obtainable land was our border.

Dental Plan was junk. The northern city was good land, but you orphaned a lot of the good seafood to claim it.

Dental Plan was to provide security for Nothing At All and claim horses. A single fish was orphaned by Nothing At All so it would have first ring food.

I hope in the aftermath of it all you wouldn't refuse to play a game I was in ever again, because I don't exactly like the idea of being considered someone who ruins a game when from my perspective I'm just trying to maximise the chances of success given my underwhelming civ skills.

You made your bed when you built and garrisoned Dental Plan. Had you not done that, you could have had more good sites to the south, you could have defended against FinHarry, you could even have avoided further war with me. But then you didn't want to avoid war with me, you decided I had to die and FinHarry could have your stuff whenever they wanted.

No, I will not play with you again.

There was one site in the south that I should've settled earlier, which was the gold. Apart from that, there was very little. War was unavoidable between you and I, FinHarry did a better job of claiming disputed land than you. I make no apologies for fighting you for that land, because it was my only chance to potentially be able to defend against FinHarry in the long term. You were the easier target, I'm not going to try to kill the guy with the vastly better technology and significantly higher military production.

If that makes you rage quit from playing that's your problem, not mine. I won't lose any sleep over it.

[Mardoc]

So, in order to defend against FinHarry, you had to actually *not* defend against them. And in order to defend Nothing, you had to settle an indefensible/intolerable city and defend that instead.

I was such a profitable target! You traded several armies and at least two settlers, for three tiles! Wow, I bow to your superior judgment